• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23

Topic: Mahler: Symphony no. 5, Mvnt. IV 'Adagietto'

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    Mahler: Symphony no. 5, Mvnt. IV 'Adagietto'

    i posted an earlier version of this rendering a very long time ago, but i wanted to re-share it after some small and belated edits.

    http://www.box.net/shared/h0ls4r2l4j

    in my opinion (any many others', i imagine) one of Mahler's most profound pieces!

    if you enjoy this rendering you might also like Ravel's "Pavane" that i recently finished here.

  2. #2

    Re: Mahler: Symphony no. 5, Mvnt. IV 'Adagietto'

    You killed Mahler after having shot Ravel. Don't ever do anything with Mahler unless you fully understand his music. Beside that, the most beautiful Mahler pages are from his 4th symphony, part 3. This is NOT my opinion, but it comes from wellknown European critics.

    I had to cut this piece because of copyright issues:

    Mahler Symph.4 part 3 Ruhevoll Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, conductor Ricardo Chailly, Decca Records.

    Normally I would skip any critics, but what you did here with those composers I admire at the most, is just beyond any words. Keep your hands off!!! Read and study Mahler's biography, please. The one who can do this right might be DPDAN, but IMHO with GPO this isn't possible.

    Raymond

  3. #3

    Re: Mahler: Symphony no. 5, Mvnt. IV 'Adagietto'

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    You killed Mahler after having shot Ravel. Don't ever do anything with Mahler unless you fully understand his music. Beside that, the most beautiful Mahler pages are from his 4th symphony, part 3. This is NOT my opinion, but it comes from wellknown European critics.

    I had to cut this piece because of copyright issues:

    Mahler Symph.4 part 3 Ruhevoll Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, conductor Ricardo Chailly, Decca Records.

    Normally I would skip any critics, but what you did here with those composers I admire at the most, is just beyond any words. Keep your hands off!!! Read and study Mahler's biography, please. The one who can do this right might be DPDAN, but IMHO with GPO this isn't possible.

    Raymond
    dear Raymond, while you are obviously within your rights to be critical, i take issue with the following:

    1) that you cite unsourced rankings of Mahler's oeuvre by European critics, either because you lack an opinion or under the assumption that their statements are fact and therefore rise above opinion (and a composer, of all people, should be least trustful of the critics).

    2) in any case misreading my word choice, which was "one of Mahler's most profound pieces", as an absolute superlative, as though it read simply "Mahler's most profound". given your intimacy with Mahler's music, i doubt you would disagree with my statement as it was actually written.

    3) your assumption, based on this rendering, that its creator would be utterly unfamiliar with or uninterested by Mahler's biography.

    and finally, this statement: "Normally I would skip any critics", which completely misrepresents your post, as it is hardly criticism (much less constructive criticism) and more a vicious, name-dropping attack on an effort to test the expressive capacity of the strings available in GPO.

    thank you, though, for the cut of Mahler's fourth symphony (though you should check the spelling of the conductor's name). the only other recording of Chailly i've heard is of the Brahms piano concerti with Freire which i remember enjoying a lot.

  4. #4
    Senior Member rpearl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    1,904

    Re: Mahler: Symphony no. 5, Mvnt. IV 'Adagietto'

    I'll agree and disagree. First, I thought you did a very good job of realizing this movement; I agree with Raymond that GPO might not be up to Mahler, but then I'm not sure any library would! Maybe it's my ears, or my speakers, but it sounded well done to me.

    As to "most profound", "one of the most profound", can we just say, "extraordinarily beautiful"? My vote for profound would probably have the be the last movement of his 9th symphony. But I do adore this movement, and am glad to have heard it done here; while I said that GPO might not be up to this task, you still did a fine job, and show the library off to great advantage. I was glad to hear your rendering.

    All the best,
    Ron Pearl

    Website:

    ronaldmpearl.com

    myspace:

    http://myspace.com/rmpearl

  5. #5

    Re: Mahler: Symphony no. 5, Mvnt. IV 'Adagietto'

    Ron - your points are well taken and appreciated! though i dislike harping on semantics, i do find that "profundity" is the essential difference between Mahler's expressiveness and his many imitators. "extraordinarily beautiful" is, however, evidently an apt descriptor for this movement.

    and lastly, more broadly speaking, i don't think it should be the intent of any library, however thoroughly sampled, to truly capture the magic of music, even music less intricate than Mahler. this is to say that i agree that GPO, or any library, could never be "up to Mahler" but i have the same conviction about literally every other piece of music conceived before the advent of sampling, even if it appears to come closer.

    therefore, musicians should never be satisfied through the use of libraries, but should be simultaneously encouraged by the "glimpse" of music making that they offer. if there is ever a recording that people find indistinguishable from a library product or live performance, i feel it would be more a comment on their musicianship than on the library.

  6. #6

    Re: Mahler: Symphony no. 5, Mvnt. IV 'Adagietto'

    the Ravel I could live with, since the woodwinds in GPO really can be quite gorgeous, and you REALLY kicked those woodwinds in the Pavane. They were hot. They were all they could be.

    The problem with this Mahler movement is, of course, the "synthy" sound of the strings.

    I know you put a lot of work into this rendering. It shows. I certainly don't blame you for the weakness in the string sound. I guess it was a daring experiment. However, it exposes the inherent flaws in GPO: its strings.

    Do you have the Garritan Strad and Gofriller solos? have you considered maybe layering in a bit of solo string into the sectional samples? Maybe it would "liven up" the affair?

    Personally, while I still think this movement is quite beautiful, I'm a little tired of hearing it. It's grown almost clichéd with over-use (like Bolero... another piece I DO love, but that is so over-used, over-played, over-exploited, that in the end it almost detracts from its greatness).

    Do you have original works of your own to post? Personally, as a composer, I'm much more interested in hearing works that demonstrate the compositional ability of the poster rather than his ability at rendering someone else's music.

  7. #7
    Senior Member rpearl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    1,904

    Re: Mahler: Symphony no. 5, Mvnt. IV 'Adagietto'

    Quote Originally Posted by sinequanon View Post
    Ron - your points are well taken and appreciated! though i dislike harping on semantics, i do find that "profundity" is the essential difference between Mahler's expressiveness and his many imitators. "extraordinarily beautiful" is, however, evidently an apt descriptor for this movement.

    and lastly, more broadly speaking, i don't think it should be the intent of any library, however thoroughly sampled, to truly capture the magic of music, even music less intricate than Mahler. this is to say that i agree that GPO, or any library, could never be "up to Mahler" but i have the same conviction about literally every other piece of music conceived before the advent of sampling, even if it appears to come closer.

    therefore, musicians should never be satisfied through the use of libraries, but should be simultaneously encouraged by the "glimpse" of music making that they offer. if there is ever a recording that people find indistinguishable from a library product or live performance, i feel it would be more a comment on their musicianship than on the library.
    Total agreement. You left out one other aspect: what it learned by rendering such a great piece. I don't think it a coincidence that Mahler was both a great orchestrator and conductor - what better way to understand combinations of sound than to stand in front of an ensemble day after say. By rendering these works, one is allowed to get under the skin of it (performing in an orchestra is another!).

    All the best,
    Ron Pearl

    Website:

    ronaldmpearl.com

    myspace:

    http://myspace.com/rmpearl

  8. #8

    Re: Mahler: Symphony no. 5, Mvnt. IV 'Adagietto'

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Normally I would skip any critics, but what you did here with those composers I admire at the most, is just beyond any words. Keep your hands off!!! Read and study Mahler's biography, please.
    I haven't heard this yet, but the Pavane was quite well done, and your words are harsh beyond reason. If you have a specific criticism, you can say so. Perhaps you don't like the tempo, the character of the strings, the balance, whatever, say it; this was a rant.

    People that present their renderings here range from utter beginners to mix masters, and everyone can learn from the others. And to say that Ravel and Mahler are composers that cannot be touched is ridiculous. Something upset you, that's clear, but the way you expressed it was not called for. I'd say some form of apology is in order.
    Theo

  9. #9

    Re: Mahler: Symphony no. 5, Mvnt. IV 'Adagietto'

    Quote Originally Posted by rpearl View Post
    Total agreement. You left out one other aspect: what it learned by rendering such a great piece.
    this sounds very much like my parents rationalizing the money spent on GPO way back when! but it is true, i agree and regret that i never played an orchestral instrument.

    Michel - i didn't have the resources to purchase the solo strings back when they were available (nor have i even upgraded to GPO4; my renderings still use the GPO Studiosaurus rex), but i layered the solo samples available in GPO over the orchestra strings to add an element of expressiveness. having lived with this rendering for some time, though, i've conditioned myself to sort of listen past the nasal synth-iness and as much as possible to the phrasing (which is also weak in spots, but i think realistic and highly expressive by most GPO standards).

    and it's true that we tend to be overexposed to this piece!

    unfortunately, i have no recent compositions that i could post here as they are recorded live and not rendered, but i would be happy to PM you examples if you'd like, let me know.

    Theo - if get a chance to listen to the Mahler and have thoughts, i would be happy to hear them. thank you for emphasizing the lack of criticism, however, as that was my biggest qualm as well.

  10. #10

    Re: Mahler: Symphony no. 5, Mvnt. IV 'Adagietto'

    Quote Originally Posted by FLWrd View Post
    ........ Something upset you, that's clear, but the way you expressed it was not called for. I'd say some form of apology is in order.
    My apologies, it was a bit too much.

    Raymond

Go Back to forum
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •