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Topic: Clarinet issue

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  1. #1

    Clarinet issue

    Gentlemen,
    while making extensive use of GPO clarinet I noticed this issue:

    When I re-trigger the same pitch it results in a phase-shifted sound at attack, generally when the previous tone is a long sustained one. It affects all clarinet players/patches. Other instruments are fine.

    It happens within Notion3, a little in stand alone mode and neither under GarageBand or Reaper.

    Has anyone else noticed this?

    I will submit this to Notion support too.
    Fabio
    Arrigo Beyle / Milanese / Lived, wrote, loved -- Stendhal
    Being Italian is a full-time job -- B. Severgnini

  2. #2

    Re: Clarinet issue

    Could you post an audio example, please?
    Éric Patenaude, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc.
    Montreal. http://www.plogue.com

  3. #3

    Re: Clarinet issue

    Link to audio file:

    http://www.box.net/shared/s5kcaogjc5



    All Bb Clarinet patches sound the same. The *Players* are a little worse than the *Solo*.

    I'm on Mac running OSX 10.4.11 + Notion 3 build 281
    Fabio
    Arrigo Beyle / Milanese / Lived, wrote, loved -- Stendhal
    Being Italian is a full-time job -- B. Severgnini

  4. #4

    Re: Clarinet issue

    that is not a phase issue, it is a difference in pitch,,...
    I don't have time to test it,, but the notes' onset is probably a tad sharp and then the loop point is at or after the instrument has settled into the desired tuning of the developers.

    Dan

  5. #5

    Re: Clarinet issue

    Fabio, do you have Auto Legato on? If so, see what happens with it off. But of course if the clarinet or any instrument is played in polyphonic mode, then one has to start worrying about the overlap of notes.

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: Clarinet issue

    Also, do you have either Var 1 or Var 2 (MIDI CC 21 and MIDI CC 22) respectively? Try tweaking these controls. After listening to your examples, I agree with the earlier post that it's a matter of intonation/tuning rather than phasing.

  7. #7

    Re: Clarinet issue

    @ Dan
    Thank you for pointing it out properly as a pitch issue.
    You see, I'm known here for my poor handling of the English idiom... Once someone said that *the boundaries of your language are the boundaries of your world*. Not to speak about my own ears boundaries.

    Anyway...

    @Eric
    If the issue relies somewhere in the loop point, may we expect it to be solved by the developers in the future?

    @ Randy
    I work with notation instruments, so auto-legato is off by default.
    Though, I'll try to lower instruments' polyphony by hand in Aria.
    Also, overlapping notes playing in series at different pitches, long or short ones, are not affected.
    Still, other instruments -- oboes, bassoons, tubas, triangles... you name it -- are not affected.
    And Notion handles legato in a way that you don't need to worry about overlapping (= quite poorly) (or , point of view matters).

    @ pcartwright
    I've checked Var1 and Var2 values. They are very low (1% and 3% respectively). Portamento was set at 12%. I reset everything to zero, but the issue is still there.

    I wish to thank you all for your tips.
    If there's any new, let me know. I will let you know if there's from mine.

    In the meanwhile I will look for a different supply for the clarinet, being cut out of from the Listening Room by myself when my work will be finished
    Or I may turn my Clarinet Concerto into a Woodblocks and String Orchestra one.

    Regards
    Fabio
    Arrigo Beyle / Milanese / Lived, wrote, loved -- Stendhal
    Being Italian is a full-time job -- B. Severgnini

  8. #8

    Re: Clarinet issue

    Fabio,

    Do you know a clarinet player? If you do, it might be useful to get a recording of the clarinet player playing the same sample that you provided to see how different the sounds are.

    Remind me also, does this only happen in Notion? If so, it may be a symptom of a rules file issue in which case we can move this back to the Notion forum to discuss.

  9. #9

    Re: Clarinet issue

    To my ear, the ingredients of this issue are:

    -A little dose of Var1 (pitch variation).
    -Long note release [length (cc21)] or reverb.

    So the 1st note still sounds when the newer one is played with the the slightest pitch difference.

    It can even sound like Notion mishandles note on / note off midi messages; so during a very short time the same sample is played twice, that would do the same effect.
    Éric Patenaude, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc.
    Montreal. http://www.plogue.com

  10. #10

    Re: Clarinet issue

    Quote Originally Posted by EricP View Post
    To my ear, the ingredients of this issue are:

    -A little dose of Var1 (pitch variation).
    -Long note release [length (cc21)] or reverb.

    So the 1st note still sounds when the newer one is played with the the slightest pitch difference.

    It can even sound like Notion mishandles note on / note off midi messages; so during a very short time the same sample is played twice, that would do the same effect.
    Hi Eric.
    You see, Var1 was at a very small 1%, then routed to 0% with same annoying effect.
    I'm with you at guessing it's Notion mishandling note on/off messages. But why just with the clarinet? Or are they less audible in other instruments?
    I'll check it again with Reaper and GarageBand too and will keep you up to date.
    Thank you for your answer.
    Last edited by fabiolcati; 05-25-2011 at 02:03 AM. Reason: Some concepts made more plain.
    Fabio
    Arrigo Beyle / Milanese / Lived, wrote, loved -- Stendhal
    Being Italian is a full-time job -- B. Severgnini

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