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Topic: Velocity or volume automation? Or both?

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  1. #1

    Velocity or volume automation? Or both?

    Now I finally have a keyboard that has a modwheel, I started to use it for recording the dynamics from my orchestral score. But should I do the volume automation still on top of this? Or do I give all my orchestral tracks the same starting volume and only use the modwheel for putting the dynamics in as velocity? How do others do this?
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  2. #2
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    Re: Velocity or volume automation? Or both?

    I don't touch my volume while I'm entering each track, I edit CC#1 & velocity. when this is all done and I'm starting to mix, I then play the role of an engineer and leave those controls alone and write in volume automation.

  3. #3

    Re: Velocity or volume automation? Or both?

    I found a bit of a catch-22 myself when exporting MIDI from Finale into ACID Pro: When I go to import the MIDI, a volume envelope is automatically created for each track based upon the dynamics in the score from Finale. (Most of the time it gets it right; sometimes not.) I'd rather use a modulation envelope, so thankfully I can draw over it and mix using volume later like Jeff mentioned.

  4. #4

    Re: Velocity or volume automation? Or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Turner View Post
    I don't touch my volume while I'm entering each track, I edit CC#1 & velocity. when this is all done and I'm starting to mix, I then play the role of an engineer and leave those controls alone and write in volume automation.
    According to the manual, the modwheel controls both velocity and volume at the same time, is it necessary than to still write volume automation?

    " With Personal Orchestra, the Mod Wheel simultaneously controls both Volume (ppp to fff) and Timbre (brightness or tone)"
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  5. #5

    Post Re: Velocity or volume automation? Or both?

    Velocity is part of the performance, while volume is part of mixing. In many instances writing volume automations while you are composing becomes detrimental. cause once you start automating you have to keep going til the end. Better do them later

    Velocity information are stored when you play, in fact how hard you press the keyboard keys correspond to a value.

    On software like pro tools, logic, cubase and others you can manually edit velocity value of each note. Volume automations are usually done when the composition is finished to balance the tracks, fade them in, etc..

    Hope this will help you guys

  6. #6

    Re: Velocity or volume automation? Or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Guardo View Post
    Velocity is part of the performance, while volume is part of mixing. In many instances writing volume automations while you are composing becomes detrimental. cause once you start automating you have to keep going til the end. Better do them later

    Velocity information are stored when you play, in fact how hard you press the keyboard keys correspond to a value.

    On software like pro tools, logic, cubase and others you can manually edit velocity value of each note. Volume automations are usually done when the composition is finished to balance the tracks, fade them in, etc..

    Hope this will help you guys
    Well...
    For a wind instrument the velocity is mapped to the attack, and then the "volume of air blown into the instrument" usually is mapped to Breath Control or Modulation or Expression. And sometimes Volume, but generally I agree that the Volume control should be left to mixing.

  7. #7

    Re: Velocity or volume automation? Or both?

    I finished recording my orchestral piece in Logic and recorded CC#1 & velocity. Now for the next step, I want to work on entering the score written dynamics. What is the best way to do this? Writing it by hand in the hyperdraw section of each track as automation? Or by using the volume track slider with the Touch enabled in the track? Or maybe with the help of one of the controls on my midi keyboard?

    Not sure though which control to use for that, my modwheel is writing modulation data, not volume data. I could assign another controller like a slider.

    IN the Manual I found this about volume:"
    7: Volume, Turned off by default.
    Volume controller CC# 7 used for static volume changes (in contrast to modulation control CC #1 which is used for dynamic volume/timbre changes). You must activate it in the ARIA player options panel."

    Not sure what this means, I don't see a volume controller in the Aria player that could be turned on or off. Or maybe they mean the sliders in the mixing panel? But they are not really turned off by default.

    I am trying to find a good workflow when working on my music, sorry for asking all these questions.
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  8. #8

    Re: Velocity or volume automation? Or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasvanHaren View Post
    I finished recording my orchestral piece in Logic and recorded CC#1 & velocity. Now for the next step, I want to work on entering the score written dynamics. What is the best way to do this? Writing it by hand in the hyperdraw section of each track as automation? Or by using the volume track slider with the Touch enabled in the track? Or maybe with the help of one of the controls on my midi keyboard?

    Not sure though which control to use for that, my modwheel is writing modulation data, not volume data. I could assign another controller like a slider.

    IN the Manual I found this about volume:"
    7: Volume, Turned off by default.
    Volume controller CC# 7 used for static volume changes (in contrast to modulation control CC #1 which is used for dynamic volume/timbre changes). You must activate it in the ARIA player options panel."

    Not sure what this means, I don't see a volume controller in the Aria player that could be turned on or off. Or maybe they mean the sliders in the mixing panel? But they are not really turned off by default.

    I am trying to find a good workflow when working on my music, sorry for asking all these questions.
    As an example: If you blow a flute hard it will have a different timbre than when you blow it with little air.
    The volume doesn't affect the timbre! So a flute blown hard (e.g. CC1=127) with volume low (CC7=30) will sound as a flute blown hard far from the listener. So Volume (cc7) really means the sliders on the mixing panel.

  9. #9

    Re: Velocity or volume automation? Or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by briff View Post
    As an example: If you blow a flute hard it will have a different timbre than when you blow it with little air.
    The volume doesn't affect the timbre! So a flute blown hard (e.g. CC1=127) with volume low (CC7=30) will sound as a flute blown hard far from the listener. So Volume (cc7) really means the sliders on the mixing panel.
    Thanks, so what you are saying is that I shouldn't write any volume automation in the separate tracks, and leave the volume slider where they are?
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  10. #10

    Re: Velocity or volume automation? Or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasvanHaren View Post
    Thanks, so what you are saying is that I shouldn't write any volume automation in the separate tracks, and leave the volume slider where they are?
    Well, if you want to mimic the musicians' moving around the hall, you should write volume and panning automation

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