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Topic: FiltLv (CC26) & FiltFq (CC27)

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  1. #1

    FiltLv (CC26) & FiltFq (CC27)

    Anyone knows what do these two controllers EXACTLY do?
    I am try to fine-tune the way the World Instruments sound so i read up these CCs from the user manual.

    The manual reads "CC26 controls the basic warmth of the tone quality.... CC27 modifies the center freq."

    Can anyone explain what do these mean? What do they really do? I have tried assigning 0% and 100%, but pardon me, I can't really tell the difference.
    Please enlighten me...

  2. #2

    Re: FiltLv (CC26) & FiltFq (CC27)

    Quote Originally Posted by tweirdo View Post
    Anyone knows what do these two controllers EXACTLY do?
    I am try to fine-tune the way the World Instruments sound so i read up these CCs from the user manual.

    The manual reads "CC26 controls the basic warmth of the tone quality.... CC27 modifies the center freq."

    Can anyone explain what do these mean? What do they really do? I have tried assigning 0% and 100%, but pardon me, I can't really tell the difference.
    Please enlighten me...
    From my view point, the instruments will have a somewhat different effect depending upon it range. To really sort of "get it", I would recommend putting CC26 at say 10%, play a sustained note, and fiddle with CC 27 from 0% to 100%. Then, move CC26 to 20% and change CC27 the same, etc. until you get the range of the effect.

    When I use it, I will change it during the course of a phrase to bring some tonal variation that a real player can sometimes get out of the instrument.

    Hope this helps.

  3. #3

    Re: FiltLv (CC26) & FiltFq (CC27)

    Quote Originally Posted by jdsnyderii View Post
    From my view point, the instruments will have a somewhat different effect depending upon it range. To really sort of "get it", I would recommend putting CC26 at say 10%, play a sustained note, and fiddle with CC 27 from 0% to 100%. Then, move CC26 to 20% and change CC27 the same, etc. until you get the range of the effect.

    When I use it, I will change it during the course of a phrase to bring some tonal variation that a real player can sometimes get out of the instrument.

    Hope this helps.
    Oh thanks... I noticed that CC27 will be more obvious if CC26 is set as 100%... I am still trying to figure how this pair will affect the timbre of an instrument...

  4. #4

    Re: FiltLv (CC26) & FiltFq (CC27)

    Quote Originally Posted by tweirdo View Post
    Oh thanks... I noticed that CC27 will be more obvious if CC26 is set as 100%... I am still trying to figure how this pair will affect the timbre of an instrument...
    Hi Tweirdo - You don't want to keep CC26 at 100% all the time. Then there's no reference point to what the track/instrument sounds like without it.

    jdsnyderii gave you very expert advice, when he said he's using these controls to bring tonal variety to an instrument, helping to emulate what happens with a real world instrument.

    It's impossible to be more specific than the feedback you've gotten - you need to experiment and listen carefully to what happens with the tone when you play with those controls. CC27 is very critical, because just as you quoted from the manual, that's determining which frequency is being effected. Those controls are very much like automating the EQ of a track over the course of a piece, to apply some of the frequency shifts that happen when a musician plays the analog equivalent of these virtual instruments.

    Randy

  5. #5

    Re: FiltLv (CC26) & FiltFq (CC27)

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Those controls are very much like automating the EQ of a track over the course of a piece, to apply some of the frequency shifts that happen when a musician plays the analog equivalent of these virtual instruments.

    Randy
    So the first thing I thought of here is, oh, do these or similar controllers exist for GPO4? But I don't think so. Have you ever automated the EQ for GPO4 instruments?

  6. #6

    Re: FiltLv (CC26) & FiltFq (CC27)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mabry View Post
    So the first thing I thought of here is, oh, do these or similar controllers exist for GPO4? But I don't think so. Have you ever automated the EQ for GPO4 instruments?
    Hi, Mabry - Yes, those frequency controls are in Aria, and since they're MIDI controllers, they can change dynamically over the course of a piece.

    I use Aria and all sample players as sound sources, usually not using a lot of things available inside the players, such as EQ settings. I've often automated EQ, doing that in my recording software, Sonar. The EQ controls in Aria can't be controlled that way, but I don't use those controls - I want as much control over sound as possible directly in Sonar. That's where I use reverb, in Sonar's mixer, and panning, EQ, volume control etc.

    Randy

  7. #7

    Re: FiltLv (CC26) & FiltFq (CC27)

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Hi, Mabry - Yes, those frequency controls are in Aria, and since they're MIDI controllers, they can change dynamically over the course of a piece.

    I use Aria and all sample players as sound sources, usually not using a lot of things available inside the players, such as EQ settings. I've often automated EQ, doing that in my recording software, Sonar. The EQ controls in Aria can't be controlled that way, but I don't use those controls - I want as much control over sound as possible directly in Sonar. That's where I use reverb, in Sonar's mixer, and panning, EQ, volume control etc.

    Randy
    Just to be clear, I was wondering if any of the GPO4 instruments have CCs similar to the CC26 and CC27 available in World Instruments and now (having just found an online copy of the GPO4 manual) it looks like only the pipe organ has these (Organ Filter Strength Controller CC# 22 & Organ Filter Frequency Controller CC# 23). If practical and/or possible it would be nice if the other instruments could have also have these.

    My current workflow (such as it is, I've only been actively using Sonar for a couple of months now) seems similar to yours in that I just pipe my heavily CCed MIDI (not doing any audio recording yet) through Aria and then add reverb or what have you later on downstream. Right now I'm going directly from Aria to the Master bus and adding reverb, panning, etc there. Do you ever route a subset of your GPO or other instruments to a separate bus and EQ them together? What is the basic procedure for varying the EQ over the course of a piece? I assume you can automate that in some fashion. I'd check the Sonar manual I just downloaded here at work but I feel guilty...

  8. #8

    Re: FiltLv (CC26) & FiltFq (CC27)

    Hello again, Mabry

    You made me curious to take a look through all my Garritan Libraries the way they are in Aria now.

    What controllers are available really varies a lot. Specifically as to CC26 and 27, they're available for the JABB woodwinds and brass. In GPO, generally you have Portamento (CC20) Length (21) Var 1 and 2 (22, 23), as well as the Stereo Stage (nice early reflection control) and then EQ. Earlier when I replied, I was thinking the frequency controls were in GPO.

    In describing your Sonar workflow, are you using separate audio tracks for each instrument out of Aria? If not, that's the best way to get control of a lot of different things.

    Yes, I often will have buses dedicated to different sections, like all the woodwind tracks going to a woodwind bus, and the same for brass, strings, percussion. I automate each instrument track, but the bus is handy for bringing an entire section up or down, as needed.

    Generally my EQ is on a per track basis, and not on a bus - but that could work too. Basically, I'm very sparing with EQ on orchestral pieces, and heavier on pop pieces where fidelity to an instrument's sound isn't as crucial.

    And yes, you can automate EQ in Sonar. On the channel strips, right click over the EQ buttons at the top, and you'll see the choice to record automation.

    When I do EQ automation, which isn't all the time by any means, but sometimes I'll do it for added flavor - it will mostly be during sustained notes. Like a clarinet may get more piercing as a note is held. That can be done by automating the higher frequencies to increase over the course of time.

    In a recent project, I was using a harmonica from JABB often. I automated both a "wah wah" effect and EQ to make it come more to life, since harmonica is an instrument that is so constantly changing in its tone as its played.

    I wish you the best in your Sonar adventures!

    Randy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mabry View Post
    Just to be clear, I was wondering if any of the GPO4 instruments have CCs similar to the CC26 and CC27 available in World Instruments and now (having just found an online copy of the GPO4 manual) it looks like only the pipe organ has these (Organ Filter Strength Controller CC# 22 & Organ Filter Frequency Controller CC# 23). If practical and/or possible it would be nice if the other instruments could have also have these.

    My current workflow (such as it is, I've only been actively using Sonar for a couple of months now) seems similar to yours in that I just pipe my heavily CCed MIDI (not doing any audio recording yet) through Aria and then add reverb or what have you later on downstream. Right now I'm going directly from Aria to the Master bus and adding reverb, panning, etc there. Do you ever route a subset of your GPO or other instruments to a separate bus and EQ them together? What is the basic procedure for varying the EQ over the course of a piece? I assume you can automate that in some fashion. I'd check the Sonar manual I just downloaded here at work but I feel guilty...

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