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Topic: Old work - renewed - Liverpudlian Delight

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  1. #1

    Old work - renewed - Liverpudlian Delight

    Old work, first made with Mozart Notation... etc. Now with Overture, Cantabile Solo, Sonar, Altiverb, Adobe Audition and full GPO. I think I presented it somewhere in the Dark Ages of History.

    Liverpudlian Delight

    Instruments:
    1st Clarinet Bb solo;
    2nd Clarinet Bb solo (slightly de-tuned);
    3nd Clarinet Eb solo;
    4th Clarinet Bass Clarinet solo.

    The score:
    http://www.box.net/shared/static/64f...cemflrcmzc.pdf


    Greetings,

    Raymond

  2. #2

    Re: Old work - renewed - Liverpudlian Delight

    very interesting. some nice pungent harmony in there.

    I did find that there's a bit of a sameness to it as the piece progresses (or rather, doesn't quite give a sense of progress).

    for the recording, I'd have liked a TINY bit more reverb.
    I don't know if the lack of reverb is what makes it sound a bit like a calliope.

  3. #3

    Re: Old work - renewed - Liverpudlian Delight

    Nice Raymond and it's good to hear/see you posting something here again by the way.

    Anyway I think this is a solid piece. I would like to have heard some more development, that is to say exploiting some different rhythms and maybe even some other farther removed harmonies before you come back to the recap, but that's just me. What you have works quite well in my opinion.

    Also this is a challenging medium because for the most part all the instruments sound the same. It's harder in a way, but not unlike writing for a brass quartet or quintet because of the homogeneous sound. I couldn't look at the score because work has box.net blocked so I couldn't really tell how you passed the figures around the choir.

    The rendering sounds good to me. I can hear all 4 parts clearly. Thanks again for sharing this with us. Hopefully you've got something new you're working on
    Steve Winkler GPO4 JAAB3 Finale 2012 Reaper Windows 7 Pro 64-bit VSL SE+

  4. #4

    Re: Old work - renewed - Liverpudlian Delight

    Unfortunately I find it hard to listen well, or take in the music - the combination of clarinets is harsh and disquieting to me, which ruins my enjoyment.

    But I'll never comment on a piece without listening to it all - so I did. At times I felt I was getting into it, then a shrill or harsh harmony distracted me. I'm hearing the instruments, not the music, if that makes sense.
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  5. #5

    Re: Old work - renewed - Liverpudlian Delight

    Thanks guys. Two things I corrected, the reverb and the harshness of the Bb clarinets, using an automated high-shelf in Sonar on those soprano voices. The reverb can make or break a piece, now I used another IR in Altiverb. Will have a look at the possibility introducing some changes in rhythm during the piece. The new music is at the same link above.

    Raymond

  6. #6

    Re: Old work - renewed - Liverpudlian Delight

    Raymond,

    I heard the piece before you added the filter and changed reverb. This is much, much MUCH better. I mean, wow, what an improvement. I heard it completely differently and really it’s quite a nice piece!


    I think Michel mentioned a “sameness” quality to the piece and I guess that really depends on your intention for the piece. I love Phillip Glass music, and it has a “sameness” quality too, but, at least in my mind’s eye, a lot of his music is great nonetheless.

    However, if that is not your intention, then I think Michel and Steve are correct in that it needs "something" to give a bit more flare. I think Steve mentioned playing around with rhythm and/or distant harmonies a bit in the development section for more depth in that section.
    If you decide to go that route, you might want to look at another alternative or an addition, that is to exploit the instrument a bit more.



    As Steve said, your quartet is homogenous in nature because you’re using 4 clarinets. It’s like having two strikes against you already for the option of varying tone color. But the clarinet family is really an amazing group of instruments. The three distinct registers can vary the tone dramatically by choosing to play all 4 instruments in a particular register for a period can give interesting results (Chalumeau, clarion, and altissimo registers) .



    The clarinet's dynamics have a huge range. The clarinet can be one of the softest instruments in the orchestra. ie: The ethereal , breathy, PPPP dynamic can be very affective in a piece.



    And the clarinets are so good at trills, portamentos, and especially tremolos in 3rd intervals---ie: one clarinet playing C and E and another playing D and F#. Clarinets are also very good at articulations from dry staccatos to beautiful silky legato playing. ie: the bass playing staccato while the B-flats are legato-ing it.


    I’m sure you know all this stuff, but I only bring it up as a possible addition to rhythm and harmonic enhancement if you decide to go that route. None of the things I mentioned might work in your piece anyway----totally up to you.


    I’m perfectly happy with what you have now. It’s a very satisfying piece.
    And by the way, I second what Steve said, it’s great to see you back here posting again. I’m probably the most guilty on that account. Hope to post soon.


    My Best,
    Cass

  7. #7

    Re: Old work - renewed - Liverpudlian Delight

    I'm benefiting from the freshly un-harshed, more reverberated version, 'twould appear. Sounds fine to me.

    Minimalism was mentioned on the thread, but that would only apply to the constant note values and unwavering tempo - much too interweavingly (I made up a new word!--I like it!)--interweavingly complex of an arrangement for it to be Minimalist.

    It had a hypnotic, melancholic effect on me - a state of mind I rather like being in. I enjoyed the journey - So thank you, Raymond for sharing this slightly spooky bit of music.

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: Old work - renewed - Liverpudlian Delight

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Minimalism was mentioned on the thread, but that would only apply to the constant note values and unwavering tempo - much too interweavingly (I made up a new word!--I like it!)--interweavingly complex of an arrangement for it to be Minimalist.

    It had a hypnotic, melancholic effect on me - a state of mind I rather like being in. I enjoyed the journey - So thank you, Raymond for sharing this slightly spooky bit of music.

    Randy
    Thanks Randy, but please next time "plain english". I had to grasp my dictionary to find out what you meant. Interweavingly, sounds great, but does it mean? Hypnotic ? Unwavering tempo? Yes, you are right, though there are a lot of tempo changes (very subtle). Got the inspiration from one of Händel's Concerto Grossi (forgot which one, but that melody stuck in my brain forever). And Händel had a very steady tempo in most of his pieces.

    Raymond

  9. #9

    Re: Old work - renewed - Liverpudlian Delight

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Thanks Randy, but please next time "plain english". I had to grasp my dictionary to find out what you meant. Interweavingly, sounds great, but does it mean? Hypnotic ? Unwavering tempo? Yes, you are right, though there are a lot of tempo changes (very subtle). Got the inspiration from one of Händel's Concerto Grossi (forgot which one, but that melody stuck in my brain forever). And Händel had a very steady tempo in most of his pieces.

    Raymond
    Beg your pardon, I was being playful with English, not quite fair when English is your second language. I could have just said "interwoven," as in the weave of fabric fibers. That was to describe the way the melodic lines for your four clarinets weave around each other in an interesting way, producing some "pungent harmony," as Michel colorfully described it.

    Hypnotic was to describe the lulling effect of the constant string of 8th notes, which is a pleasant thing. I can often feel a shift in my brain as I listen to music. I think that a temporary shift in consciousness is part of our enjoyment of music.

    When I mentioned the apparently unwavering tempo, I was only describing the tempo, not making any judgement about it. As you said, older classical music, like Handel's, tends to have a steady tempo. No criticism intended.

    So this music does have a feeling of sameness throughout, and it doesn't have the intention of having a dramatic build, but I think those observations are just descriptions. And it's those steady elements that have that slightly hypnotic effect I mentioned.

    There, I think I've clarified my earlier post. Thanks again for posting music, Raymond.

    Randy

  10. #10

    Re: Old work - renewed - Liverpudlian Delight

    To compare both "unharshed" versions, new links to the changed version. The originals are as in the first message.

    Music:
    http://www.box.net/shared/static/hk1...e0vkqkkt2k.mp3
    Score:
    http://www.box.net/shared/iiyed7ol456dk49bjdml or
    http://www.box.net/shared/static/iiy...6dk49bjdml.pdf

    Randy, writing this message I saw your new post. Your plain english is not mine, because I speak and write plain Dutch (haha). I love when people use new words, enhancing my knowledge of your native language. But sometimes... it puzzles me, because behind those new words or sayings, the dictionary fails. Interwoven, like a carpet with many motivs. Yes, I like that. But you being a poet, you just invent new words.

    That sameness often tends to be bouring. I listened carefully to the piece, again and again and pinpointed the "dull" repetition. In the original score there is a repetition, which I deleted in the second version. Also made the accompagniment a bit different at the last bars/measures. For my ears, though a bit shorter in time, it is more pleasant listening.

    The harshness of the clarinets is always there, I checked it with a recording of an arrangement for clarinets of a theme of Rossini. Not as clear as in the original (very first) version. At higher registers the clarinet looses his melancholic sound.

    Raymond

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