GAS (Basic) in MainStage (64-bit mode) needs 32-bit Bridge and works poorly

[Macy]

I'm confused. The GAS manual says it is OS X 64-bit compatible, but when I load it in MainStage (as AU plug-in) it fires up a 32-bit Bridge. It then overloads the CPU in MainStage while playing. When I run MainStage in 32-bit mode (which I don't want to do) GAS runs fine without ever causing a CPU overload.

So it appears that it is not really 64-bit compatible and doesn't even work well with 32-bit bridge software.

Am I doing something wrong? (Everything works fine with standalone player, which appears to be 32-bit also).

[Macy]

I'm looking at the Aria Player version 1.111 that is linked from the Garritan page. It says it is 64 bit compatible so maybe it will work properly with Apple's Mainstage since apparently it works in Logic? But I'm leery to install it because of the thread 4 down in this forum about the 1.111 update that is really confusing. It finished with a statement that it doesn't load GAS samples and the user had to reload his original 1.04 GAS package??? Is that correct?

"FYI the 1.111 ARIA player is a 64 bit player, while GAS is a 32 bit player, so Garritan will show up in both AU Instruments and (32 bit). For some reason the ARIA 1.111 will not load the GAS samples."

[Jeff Hurchalla]

Hi Macy
I got Main Stage today so I could test this. I didn't have any problems with running the Steinway as a 32 bit plugin when I launched Main Stage as a 64 bit app. It did seem to use more CPU than Aria player 64 bit (more on that in a moment), but not to the point where it was a problem for me - the meter didn't go above 50% and I didn't hear artifacts so it seemed okay. The manual is unfortunately wrong about Macintosh 64 bit right now. It's a bad mistake on one of the more recent edits of the manual, for what it's worth probably due to a mixup in using the current specs for the Aria player (which was updated for 64 bit Apple support not too long ago) when editing the Steinway manual. I'm really sorry for the mistake in that, as it's something I never want to go out incorrectly. For now, I'd suggest using Steinway as a 32 bit plugin within Main Stage if you can, or alternately using 32 bit Main Stage if that's an option. Using the 64 bit Mac Aria player is also a work-around option, although it's not completely ideal. You can get the Aria player at http://www.garritan.com/store/regist...ownloads/free/
I didn't have any problems loading the Steinway piano with it in Main Stage. However, since the Steinway isn't updated for 64 bit Mac, the Sustain resonance and the Velocity curve and the Sympathetic Resonance don't have any effect. If you can live without them, you could try the 64 bit Aria player. I'd personally prefer the 32 bit Main Stage or 32 bit Steinway plugin in 64 bit Main stage, along with not having changes to the system due to the Aria player.
I do expect to add 64 bit Mac support to the Steinway, though a lot is in transition with Makemusic acquiring Garritan right before Christmas. My impression is quite positive for Steinway work over the next year+, though we're still firming up plans.
Hope this helps-

[Macy]

Thanks for responding Jeff. I didn't know if you were still around.

When I loaded the Aria player (current 32-bit version of Aria - which then automatically uses the 32-bit Bridge app with the 64-bit version of MainStage) it pegged the CPU meter in MainStage frequently and the sound breaks up when that happens. I disabled all other processing in MainStage and that didn't help. So for me that configuration didn't work, but I'll try it again.

Since Garritan realizes that the GAS manual is wrong about 64-bit Mac support, why hasn't the on-line manual ever been corrected?

Thanks for the honest information about the new 64-bit version of the Aria Player. But you say it doesn't support Sustain Resonance or Sympathetic Resonance, so that makes it unusable for me.

On the Garritan support FAQ page (www.garritan.com/faq/) the large Authorized Steinway heading links directly to the Aria support page (www.ariaengine.com/support/) which has a large green link (GET ARIA ENGINE UPDATE) to Version 1.111, dated Nov 2010. You informed me here that it is basically incompatible with the Authorized Steinway (no Sustain Resonance, no Sympathetic Resonance, no Velocity Curves). Don't you think the Garritan Authorized Steinway web site should make that completely clear and not link to that update for more than year without some warning?

I appreciate that you responded and that you are still around. You have always been helpful here. But Garritan needs to improve if it expects customers to buy new products when existing products never get the updates that were promised (version 1.05), major errors aren't corrected in the manual, and support pages link to incompatible updates.

[Jeff Hurchalla]

I found the manual error yesterday about Mac 64 bit support after reading your post and checking the manual online. I'll try to fix any online versions this coming workday.

The support page link you mentioned is actually for updating the Aria Engine rather than the Aria Player. They're two different things and the Aria Engine is very much compatible with the Steinway. All our products use the Aria Engine, including the Steinway Player. The warning I wrote about in my last post was on using a workaround of loading the Steinway in the Macintosh 64 bit Aria Player, and specifically the warning applies only if you use the Macintosh 64 bit Aria Player application to load the Steinway and definitely doesn't apply to any other instruments loaded in the 64 bit Mac Aria Player. The Steinway of course has its own dedicated player/plugin, so it's a bit unusual to talk about loading the Steinway in the Aria Player and it's why I refer to it as a workaround. For clarity, I'll mention for others reading this that the Windows 64 bit Steinway Player works fine, as does using the Windows 64 bit Aria Player to load the Steinway.

I'll do my best to improve the Steinway software, and try to fix any manual or online errors that I see or that you mention, starting with the error about current Garritan Steinway Mac 64 bit support.

[Macy]

I found the manual error yesterday about Mac 64 bit support after reading your post and checking the manual online. I'll try to fix any online versions this coming workday.

My mistake. I misunderstood. I thought the error had been known for quite some time. It's in the manual I downloaded in Jan 2010 (2 years ago). I didn't realize my post was the first time anyone realized that manual says "... takes full advantage of the new 64-bit operating systems, processors ..." and "As more hosts, operating systems and hardware become 64-bit enabled, the [GAS] will work with those 64-bit platforms."

The support page link you mentioned is actually for updating the Aria Engine rather than the Aria Player. They're two different things and the Aria Engine is very much compatible with the Steinway. All our products use the Aria Engine, including the Steinway Player. The warning I wrote about in my last post was on using a workaround of loading the Steinway in the Macintosh 64 bit Aria Player, and specifically the warning applies only if you use the Macintosh 64 bit Aria Player application to load the Steinway and definitely doesn't apply to any other instruments loaded in the 64 bit Mac Aria Player. The Steinway of course has its own dedicated player/plugin, so it's a bit unusual to talk about loading the Steinway in the Aria Player and it's why I refer to it as a workaround. For clarity, I'll mention for others reading this that the Windows 64 bit Steinway Player works fine, as does using the Windows 64 bit Aria Player to load the Steinway.

Now I'm really confused.

Are you saying the Aria Engine v1.111 (linked from the Garritan AS FAQ page) is compatible and therefore should be installed? Since I haven't done that yet, could that be why my GAS version doesn't work well in the 64-bit mode of MainStage with the 32-bit Bridge, while your GAS version apparently works fine? If so, I will download the Aria Engine update and install it. BUT - the download page for the Aria Engine says "ARIA PLAYER users should first look at updating their full ARIA PLAYER before running any ARIA ENGINEupdate." So is it ok to use the newer engine with the older player, because the newer Player (v1.111) has the incompatibilities?

I still don't understand why the Garritan Download page provides the v1.111 Aria Player and v1.111 Aria Engine update as a package with no warning that the Player part is incompatible with GAS? How can you provide that update package knowing that isn't compatible? I must still be misunderstanding something?

[Macy]

Hi Macy
I didn't have any problems with running the Steinway as a 32 bit plugin when I launched Main Stage as a 64 bit app. It did seem to use more CPU than Aria player 64 bit (more on that in a moment), but not to the point where it was a problem for me - the meter didn't go above 50% and I didn't hear artifacts so it seemed okay.

Well, I think I have discovered something. When I initially open up MainStage in 64-bit mode (after a reboot of my Mac) and load the "Concert" (which is what MainStage calls the collection of instrument plugins - that includes GAS) the MainStage CPU meter overloads (goes to 100% and turns red) while playing as few as 3 or 4 keys with the sustain pedal down.

But if I then open the GAS human interface (MainStage at first opens a blank window and asks you to click again in that window - this only happens when you are using the 64-bit mode of MainStage to open the 32-bit GAS Player) the overloading stops. You don't have to make a single click in the GAS interface after it is open - apparently the mere opening of the 32-bit GAS interface (which you can then close if you want) triggers something that reduces the CPU load from that point forward. The CPU meter is then around 50% or so and only very rarely overloads and I don't even hear a glitch when that occurs.

I hope you will try it as I described Jeff and confirm the same behavior. Normally, I don't open the GAS interface when using MainStage because everything is already setup as I want it, so I get the problem each time use MainStage. But now I just have to open the GAS window and then close it again and things seem to work ok. I can switch piano plug-ins in MainStage and return to GAS and it still works ok. Very strange, but this seems to be an effective work around in the 64-bit MainStage mode.

[Jeff Hurchalla]

Ordinarily I don't think there's any reason to use the Aria Player to load the Steinway, but there are a few special cases like loading two perspectives of the pro version simultaneously where it does something the dedicated Steinway player app can't do. It helps in special cases like that, and by nature the Aria player works as 32 bit or 64 bit even if on Mac the Steinway is currently 32 bit only. The special case utility is why we have it available as an extra for download even though someone could run the 64 bit Mac Aria Player and load the Steinway without being able to use sustain resonance in the 64 bit mac Aria player. FYI none of this would have any effect on the dedicated Steinway player one way or the other.
To maybe help a little with questions you had, you can think of the Aria Player and the Steinway Player as being primarily user interfaces that call on the Aria Engine sampler to make their sound. So you can update the Aria Engine if you like, but I don't expect it to either help or to hurt with using the Steinway or Main Stage. You've already got the Aria Engine because you've installed the Steinway and its updates, and the Mac Steinway 64 bit support is something that has nothing to do with the Aria Engine (which is already 32/64 bit). I need to specifically update Mac Steinway components like sustain resonance to 64 bit, in order for those functions to work in Mac 64 bit.

Anyway It seems pretty likely the 32 bit bridge is the best workaround for you in Main Stage 64 bit. I get the same behavior you describe if the bit bridge plugin screen is blank, and when I click on the plugin screen to show the Steinway, the CPU meter goes to normal and I load the piano and play fine. I would guess it's some strangeness with the bit bridge. When I tested earlier, I clicked right away so I could load the piano, and never spent any time with the bit bridge plugin screen blank. I'd go with the workaround of clicking the bit bridge plugin you described - it looks like a good solution.

[Macy]

Anyway It seems pretty likely the 32 bit bridge is the best workaround for you in Main Stage 64 bit. I get the same behavior you describe if the bit bridge plugin screen is blank, and when I click on the plugin screen to show the Steinway, the CPU meter goes to normal and I load the piano and play fine. I would guess it's some strangeness with the bit bridge. When I tested earlier, I clicked right away so I could load the piano, and never spent any time with the bit bridge plugin screen blank. I'd go with the workaround of clicking the bit bridge plugin you described - it looks like a good solution.

Thanks Jeff for verifying this really simple workaround behaves the same on your system. When something works strange, like this combination of the 32-bit Bridge and GAS, it's reassuring to know it isn't somehow unique to my system set-up. So I'm happily using this workaround and it's nice to be able to switch to the Garritan amongst my collection of virtual pianos in MainStage.

[Macy]

Ordinarily I don't think there's any reason to use the Aria Player to load the Steinway, but there are a few special cases like loading two perspectives of the pro version simultaneously where it does something the dedicated Steinway player app can't do. It helps in special cases like that, and by nature the Aria player works as 32 bit or 64 bit even if on Mac the Steinway is currently 32 bit only. The special case utility is why we have it available as an extra for download even though someone could run the 64 bit Mac Aria Player and load the Steinway without being able to use sustain resonance in the 64 bit mac Aria player. FYI none of this would have any effect on the dedicated Steinway player one way or the other.

I'm happy now that I found a nice and easy workaround for MainStage.

But I'm confused about what you mean by the "Aria Player" vs "the dedicated Steinway Player", and "I don't think there's any reason to use the Aria Player to load the Steinway". For future use/discussions I would like to understand that terminology. I didn't know there were 2 players, and if there are two which is getting used for what.

I understand the Aria Engine is underlying software for playing the samples, and the 2 players are therefore human interfaces for the sample engine and other effects. But I didn't know there were 2 different "players".

Is the Aria Player a standalone application (or shell) used only for the standalone player version of GAS that then loads and runs the "dedicated Steinway Player" and therefore not needed/used in MainStage? I'm guessing that based on your comment that I don't need the Aria Player to load the Steinway" (in MainStage I presume). So the AU plug-in loads the "dedicated Steinway Player"? If so, how would I even load the Aria Player into MainStage if I wanted to use it?

Sorry, but this is the first time I've heard about two players and I don't understand?