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Topic: Beethoven Symphony #5 - 1st movement

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  1. #1
    Senior Member sd cisco's Avatar
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    Beethoven Symphony #5 - 1st movement

    Hello Forum!
    A familiar piece of music by the great Beethoven, makes for a challenge when rendering for a virtual orchestra. First, it is a complicated mix and second because everybody knows this one, unlike resurrecting ancient music, (or modern), and arranging it. In the case of the latter, who knows if you got it right or not? Anyway, a Beethoven symphony is just that, and a daunting task indeed, but made better in that I love the music and in particular the stretch about 3/4 thru it, where there is a build-up to a powerful descending passage that meets an even more powerful ascending bit, which to me represents the composer fighting back against Fate and triumphing over adversity. I realize that is a subjective interpretation of what the music is about, but it works for me!

    Best regards,
    sd cisco



    http://www.box.com/s/rbjbehnt4b8dj9amc2il

  2. #2

    Re: Beethoven Symphony #5 - 1st movement

    This is a very good Arrangement. I like how the instruments play the articulations and tempo changes. The timpani sounds kind of drowned, though.

  3. #3
    Senior Member sd cisco's Avatar
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    Re: Beethoven Symphony #5 - 1st movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Symphonynumbertwo View Post
    This is a very good Arrangement. I like how the instruments play the articulations and tempo changes. The timpani sounds kind of drowned, though.
    Thanks. The Timpani has been an issue from the get-go. Either it is too loud or not loud enough. The problem is that the rest of the orchestra is making so much noise, and yet I wanted the orchestra to be loud, where appropriate to. Perhaps I could try compression on them?

    Thanks for listening and commenting and Welcome to Forum!

    sd cisco

  4. #4

    Re: Beethoven Symphony #5 - 1st movement

    Did you put the midi file together yourself? That would be some task, daunting indeed.

    Even if not, there would be a huge amount of effort required on the tracks to adjust all that midi data - must have taken forever. Well done!
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  5. #5
    Senior Member sd cisco's Avatar
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    Re: Beethoven Symphony #5 - 1st movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Plowking View Post
    Did you put the midi file together yourself? That would be some task, daunting indeed.

    Even if not, there would be a huge amount of effort required on the tracks to adjust all that midi data - must have taken forever. Well done!
    Thank you Graham! Doing this piece has been on my bucket list since I got with the GPO, but every time I tried to tackle it, I found the management of the voices, very, very difficult. I used an existing midi file of the piece, but it, along with the other versions I found and tried, all had a lot of the machine-gun effect, due to rapidly repeating notes and all the things that give rise to that problem. What turned this project, and others, around, was that when I had to buy a new computer (PC) last summer, I also had to get a new sound card compatible with 64 bit. So I bought a Presonus Audiobox, and it came with free DAW called "Studio One". I produced this render in Cubase, but what I did was to first import the midi file into Studio One, because it has a variable "humanize" function. So I applied the humanizing to the midi file and then brought it back into Cubase and got to work. But overall, it is the voice management that is the chore. However, I do like my render of the piece, because I found the emphasis I applied to the that exciting part I mentioned initially in my posting, made it sound like I have wished it would sound, when performed by real orchestras.
    Besides all the roll-out of the theme/mofif that you would expect in a symphonies first movement, what Beethoven does in that particular part really constitutes the composers core message of "defiance in the face of adversity" and I find it quite personal, on a certain level.
    Thanks for listening and for commenting!

    sd cisco

  6. #6

    Re: Beethoven Symphony #5 - 1st movement

    Hello there, sd cisco. I agree entirely with what you said, which can also be applied to music performance. When you try to tackle such a well known piece, it will always be compared to another version someone else has heard at some point or another. This, however, is excellent! I will mirror that there are occasions when the timpani does sound a bit too muffled (mainly when it just has those sections when it place the same note about 12 or 15 times in a row, not sure on the exact number), otherwise, it seems nicely done, though. The French Horn entrance around 1/3 of the way through is spot on, and the strings are stunning throughout, though! I'm not normally one to comment on the rendering of a piece, but this is very good work, indeed! Thanks for sharing!
    Michael Obermeyer, Jr.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member sd cisco's Avatar
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    Re: Beethoven Symphony #5 - 1st movement

    Quote Originally Posted by sanyarem View Post
    Hello there, sd cisco. I agree entirely with what you said, which can also be applied to music performance. When you try to tackle such a well known piece, it will always be compared to another version someone else has heard at some point or another. This, however, is excellent! I will mirror that there are occasions when the timpani does sound a bit too muffled (mainly when it just has those sections when it place the same note about 12 or 15 times in a row, not sure on the exact number), otherwise, it seems nicely done, though. The French Horn entrance around 1/3 of the way through is spot on, and the strings are stunning throughout, though! I'm not normally one to comment on the rendering of a piece, but this is very good work, indeed! Thanks for sharing!
    Hi Micheal;
    Thanks for listening and commenting! Although some may not agree, I think if someone (like, as in most people) heard this rendition produced with GPO4 voices entirely, and you didn't tell them it was a computer/virtual instrument(s), I do suspect they would think it was a real orchestra. Not true for just this render, but for many that are presented on the Forum. So, I feel the GPO4 tool set has completely lived up to my expectations and does the job, even without the various articulations you get with more expensive libraries. Articulations aside, to my ear, what those more expensive libraries rely on heavily, is the doubling of voices, and the use of IR-type reverberation to give that sound, if you wanted it. There is a difference between the "sound" of a piece, and the actual musical content. BTW, I am certain none of this is news to you or most on the Forum, but I thought I would restate it anyway, given my loquacious inclination this morning.

    Thanks again and take care,
    sd cisco

  8. #8

    Re: Beethoven Symphony #5 - 1st movement

    Wow, Sd - What a project! It had to have been exciting, working this into such a great sounding recording.

    The results may be a bit more polite, a bit less aggressive than a typical live orchestra recording, but that's basically due to a limitation in doing up virtual orchestra renditions of classical music.

    --It's amazing to think of how people used to cook up these complex MIDI files like this, and still do. But the weeks of work it would entail!

    What you've done with that MIDI file you found is an excellent demo of GPO, and should be inspiring to both experienced users and newbies alike.

    Congratulations!

    Randy

  9. #9
    Senior Member sd cisco's Avatar
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    Re: Beethoven Symphony #5 - 1st movement

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Wow, Sd - What a project! It had to have been exciting, working this into such a great sounding recording.

    The results may be a bit more polite, a bit less aggressive than a typical live orchestra recording, but that's basically due to a limitation in doing up virtual orchestra renditions of classical music.

    --It's amazing to think of how people used to cook up these complex MIDI files like this, and still do. But the weeks of work it would entail!

    What you've done with that MIDI file you found is an excellent demo of GPO, and should be inspiring to both experienced users and newbies alike.

    Congratulations!

    Randy
    Hello Randy!
    Thank you very much for your compliments, it is an honour coming from one who is held in such high esteem in this community!!
    I wanted to use the GPO4 to put me into the "drivers seat" with this music and it did, and that my friend, was indeed a pretty big thrill!

    Thank you,
    sd cisco

  10. #10
    Senior Member fastlane's Avatar
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    Re: Beethoven Symphony #5 - 1st movement

    This does sound quite good. Amazing in fact.

    Ludwig was on a roll wasn't he. This music grabs a hold of you and shakes you.




    Phil

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