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Topic: Finale and GPO4 Help Thread

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  1. #1

    Finale and GPO4 Help Thread

    Hi all,

    Ok let's kick this off and see how it goes.

    First, go here and download my .mus file - it's the full score.

    Download Finale Mus file

    The MP3 file - a direct output from finale with no processing of any kind is here:

    Allegro

    The following may not be the case for everyone - but when I first checked out the HP articulations, I found that up and downbows had no activation triggers - so I had to create these. See image:



    These keyswitches (up and down bowing) were triggered by the symbols highlighted on the score. I found that Finale (naturally) likes to be told how to play each note - there might be a way around it, but I found that if I wanted it to bow, I had to tag each note. If you didn't tag a note with the up or down symbol, it defaults to arco (naturally).



    These are my general HP settings used on this file. Because of the nature of the piece, its quite rhythmic, rather than rubato. You want to leave elements of rubato and mood either way, because we are trying to emulate human playback - and that is never super precise.

    NOTE - I have attached my HP profile to the .mus file. So all being good, all of this 'should' be loaded up with the file when you open it.

    ARIA - VST

    I used 3 instances of aria


    ARIA 1


    ARIA 2


    ARIA 3


    For the reverb I just used arias engine, with the following settings in each of the 3 players. You can use whatever reverb plugin you prefer though.





    This is the instrument list view


    Ok - that covers the basic set up. It might be best from there that I answer questions rather than trying to explain everything - let me know what you all think.

    Cheers
    Graham
    Website:
    www.grahamplowman.com
    YouTube Music:
    My Channel
    Twitter:
    @GPComposer
    Facebook:
    Facebook

  2. #2

    Re: Finale and GPO4 Help Thread

    I think you did a marvelous job of showing users of Finale a lot of things many people are not aware of. This little tutorial is priceless for that reason.

    Thanks for all of your time and Finale knowledge in producing this helpful tutorial. We definitely need MUCH more of this kind of help for the many forum members that use Finale and that are new to Garritan libraries.

    Jack
    Jack Cannon--MacBook Pro (2015, 13") GPO4/5, JABB3, Auth. STEINWAY, YAMAHA CFX, Gofriller CELLO, Stradivari VIOLIN, COMB2, WORLD, HARPS, PIPE ORGANS, FINALE 2014.5, Mac Pro 2.66 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, DP 9.5, MOTU Traveler, MOTU Micro Express, MacBook Pro (2012, 13") 2.2 Ghz CPU, 8 GB RAM.

  3. #3

    Re: Finale and GPO4 Help Thread

    My first question (and I have not yet opened the Finale file) is about the instrument players in your ARIA instances. I noticed some are plr versions e.g. Bb Clarinet plr1 and Bassoon plr1. Can you tell me why you didn't use the full solo versions of these players? I know some don't have more than one solo player but even so, you didn't use any of those instruments solo players.

    I see my brother doing this all the time and he doesn't have a reason for it. I just wondered if you have a reason for doing it so.

    BTW - the mp3 sounds GREAT!
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  4. #4

    Re: Finale and GPO4 Help Thread

    I just went to my Finale program and looked at your piece and the HP setup. I have to say that this is some fine detailed work you did at setting up all the bowings. I am sure that took you quite a bit of time to do. Congratulations on your efforts. The piece really shines with the string bowings working as they should. I also tried putting in the solo instruments that were not used in the woodwinds and brass and I heard a little difference (on my system any way) to the better. The oboes and bassoons had a little more life and the brass had a bit more punch. Maybe I am hearing with my head and not my ear. I would still be interested in knowing why you choice the instrument players that you did.

    Thanks again for a great demo and tutorial. I know there will be many questions being asked about this and how those of us that use Finale can get those kind of results. It certainly would save a lot of effort for those of us who port over to a DAW in not having to add the articulations there but can have them already incorporated in the midi file that is brought into the DAW.
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  5. #5

    Re: Finale and GPO4 Help Thread

    I had a question about the bowing. To me D-2 which is labeled as spiccato in HP do the same thing as D#-2 and E-2? I believe D-2 is auto alternate bowing.
    Steve Winkler GPO4 JAAB3 Finale 2012 Reaper Windows 7 Pro 64-bit VSL SE+

  6. #6

    Re: Finale and GPO4 Help Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by swinkler View Post
    I had a question about the bowing. To me D-2 which is labeled as spiccato in HP do the same thing as D#-2 and E-2? I believe D-2 is auto alternate bowing.
    Looking in on this thread - Very interesting so far, Graham!

    D-2 is auto alternate, and, as labeled in the chart you posted, Graham, D#-2 is Upbows, E-2 is Downbows.

    Rich's question about the Player instruments - This has always been something people have different opinions on. I only use Players if I've run out of soloists to use, because the latter are more complex, natural sounding samples. The Players have a simpler and duller sound. Some people who always use the Players even when they're not using soloists feel they blend better in an ensemble. But - I agree with Rich that there's a more full, natural sound when using as many soloists as possible.

    Randy

  7. #7

    Re: Finale and GPO4 Help Thread

    I loaded ARIA 1 (15 instruments) and copied your volume, pan, and reverb settings.

    Are you using the Finale mixer for individual track volume and pan? Seems like ARIA settings are overruled when using the Finale mixer. Am I correct or not?

    Your score is absolutely definitive. It tells Finale exactly what to do and Finale does it......LOL. I'm also using Finale 2011.

    Jack
    Jack Cannon--MacBook Pro (2015, 13") GPO4/5, JABB3, Auth. STEINWAY, YAMAHA CFX, Gofriller CELLO, Stradivari VIOLIN, COMB2, WORLD, HARPS, PIPE ORGANS, FINALE 2014.5, Mac Pro 2.66 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, DP 9.5, MOTU Traveler, MOTU Micro Express, MacBook Pro (2012, 13") 2.2 Ghz CPU, 8 GB RAM.

  8. #8

    Re: Finale and GPO4 Help Thread

    Hi folks -

    First up - the reason I had used the players was that they were designed for the ensemble - I basically took this information from the manual and ran with it - so that is why I had used them. But if there is a better sound from the solo's - by all means use them. I probably never tried to combine the solos after reading that bit in the manual.

    I think there are a number of things that could be further improved in the playback, and some of that would come from you guys - as I think we all have pieces of the puzzle to better playback. Let's combine them.

    All of the volumes are set in aria - I found the connection between aria's levels and finales tricky to set right. In the instrument list every volume level is auto set at 101. I chose to adjust the aria sliders instead, but I'm sure you can do it vice-versa and adjust the finale vol number.

    I didn't use alternate bowing as I recall it not working very well. I preferred the sample switch of up, down, up, instead of the same keyswitch - also at times, I want to do up bow, up bow, no alternating. By all means you can try using the d2 switch, and if you wanted to repeat a bowing, then use the symbols.

    Note that there are no keyswitch 'notes' in my score - it's all controlled by finales triggers.

    I also adjust length (release) times - see the start of the score. I created a trigger to set it about half way for the short notes, and then for the actual string sustains I set it near full - this helps the strings blend and improves the legato because the release tails join the notes quite well.

    I didn't actually change the velocities of most the sustain notes - you can adjust these to improve attacks, short or longer, to further improve the playback - but I found this an awkward element in Finale to adjust so I left it mostly alone.

    Note that I don't think the keyswitches and other triggers of finale appear in the midi file if you import to a DAW. I suspect you'd have to set all of this up in your DAW seperately. Another reason why I didn't bother trying to compose in finale then import to DAW. I also found that finale didn't spit out modulation data - it spat out volume data instead. You'd mostly just have to export the raw notes, then do all the DAW work. There's no fast track I know of from going from finale to DAW.
    Website:
    www.grahamplowman.com
    YouTube Music:
    My Channel
    Twitter:
    @GPComposer
    Facebook:
    Facebook

  9. #9

    Re: Finale and GPO4 Help Thread

    I also found that finale didn't spit out modulation data - it spat out volume data instead.
    Hmmm... It does when I convert the Finale file to a midi file. I get CC1 for my volume and I get CC64 for my slurs. I also get any other CCs that are in the Finale File which I had used in the score. I remember having to set a switch in Human Playback somewhere to tell it how I wanted midi conversions to be saved. I will have to go back and look at that today when I get a chance.
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  10. #10

    Re: Finale and GPO4 Help Thread

    My only thought about having the up/down bow articulations trigger anything is that if you wanted to mark a bowing on a long note. I think that would result in Finale playing a short note instead.

    Also you can easily hide text markings or articulations if you don't want everything to display. On windows you select the articulations and press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+H. That way you can have it display AND playback correctly if that matters to you.
    Steve Winkler GPO4 JAAB3 Finale 2012 Reaper Windows 7 Pro 64-bit VSL SE+

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