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Topic: Timpani Roll

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  1. #1

    Timpani Roll

    How does one do a timpani roll in GPO? (over four beats, volume increasing)

  2. #2

    Re: Timpani Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by maiki View Post
    How does one do a timpani roll in GPO? (over four beats, volume increasing)
    Hi, Maiki - I see you found an old post from Styxx that used to have the link to a MIDI file on it. That post is from 2005, so, the link is dead like on a lot of older threads.

    I just now looked for an old post of mine where I explained my way of doing Tympani rolls - but I couldn't find it.

    Here's an MP3 of a GPO roll:

    http://www.box.com/shared/004p1qkpll

    If that suits you, I can explain how I did it in another reply. I use Sonar, so my method wouldn't be helpful to a notation user. Let me know which kind of software you're using.

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: Timpani Roll

    But how does one get GPO4 to do a timpani roll? The manual really doesn't explain it in a way that I can understand. Thanks. (My orchestra piece is almost done, and I'll post next week.)

    John
    John Newell
    www.johnnewellmusic.com
    GPO4, Garritan World Instruments, Digital Performer 7.24, Finale 2012, Miroslav Philharmonik

  4. #4

    Re: Timpani Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by John Newell View Post
    But how does one get GPO4 to do a timpani roll? The manual really doesn't explain it in a way that I can understand. Thanks. (My orchestra piece is almost done, and I'll post next week.)

    John
    Hi, John - Your new post on this year old thread makes me wish, Again, that I could find the tutorial I posted on this long ago. Still can't find it. OK--let me briefly outline how I did the roll in that MP3 sample:

    --The key is Playing the roll. There are two sample sets for each Tympani note. They're 2 octaves apart in both the Basic Orchestration patch, and in the Tympani patch. The lower octave has left hand strikes, upper octave has right hand strikes.

    --Play the roll as fast as you can, using the forefinger of each hand - the two octaves back and forth. Don't worry about volume, just focus on playing the notes as fast and smoothly as you can.

    --You'll have a MIDI clip with all the beautiful imperfections of human timing. But you need to fix the volume.

    --Remembering that the volume of percussion instruments is controlled by key Velocity, go into your Piano Roll View and edit the volumes. In Sonar, hold Ctrl down so you can sweep through unimpeded with your cursor, with no quantization occurring.

    --In the MP3, I left the high velocities way up there for the first very few notes, Then, in the Velocity control pane of the PRV, I swept sharply down to somewhere around the values of 40. Then, making sure I didn't make any perfect lines, I moved my hand up and down to keep the velocities somewhat random, as I made a curve going up to the maximum velocity.

    --ALTERNATIVELY, and easier, is to select the clip, and using the velocity scaling tool using a percentage, not an absolute value. Type in a starting percentage, perhaps 35% or so, and type in an ending value of 100%. That way, all the varying velocity values will remain intact, except you'll have a crescendo. Doing it this way, you won't have that initially loud attack like in the MP3. If you want that, go to PRV and draw it in as above.

    That's the way I always do my rolls. And I don't keep them for future reference. I always custom record them for a piece - it's a very quick and easy process, taking just a few minutes to do a roll.

    Randy

  5. #5

    Re: Timpani Roll

    As for notation- I manage tymp rolls in 4/4 by entering a whole note, then dragging a trill over the bar (can be extended across two bars if needed), then I cover the crescendo or de-crescendo with the appropriate symbol underneath.

    Using GPO and Human Playback (in PM), the result is a fair approximation of the sound. Individual mallet hits are distinguishable, and the bar is a lot less crowded than if you entered the same in 64ths (for example). The roll can be fine-tuned by paying attention to the start and end levels of the crescendo marking, and cautious use of sFz as appropriate.

    Not sure about the other notation programs, but it works for me.
    Last edited by BVstudios; 01-18-2013 at 07:28 PM. Reason: typo
    Cheers,

    Kevin F..

    KM Frye- (SOCAN)
    Music Director- Four Seasons Musical Theatre- 2016

    Bella Vista Studios
    Canada

    GPO4, JABB3, Garritan World Inst, REAPER, Roland VS2480 DAW

  6. #6

    Re: Timpani Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Hi, John - Your new post on this year old thread makes me wish, Again, that I could find the tutorial I posted on this long ago. Still can't find it. OK--let me briefly outline how I did the roll in that MP3 sample:

    --The key is Playing the roll. There are two sample sets for each Tympani note. They're 2 octaves apart in both the Basic Orchestration patch, and in the Tympani patch. The lower octave has left hand strikes, upper octave has right hand strikes.

    --Play the roll as fast as you can, using the forefinger of each hand - the two octaves back and forth. Don't worry about volume, just focus on playing the notes as fast and smoothly as you can.

    --You'll have a MIDI clip with all the beautiful imperfections of human timing. But you need to fix the volume.

    --Remembering that the volume of percussion instruments is controlled by key Velocity, go into your Piano Roll View and edit the volumes. In Sonar, hold Ctrl down so you can sweep through unimpeded with your cursor, with no quantization occurring.

    --In the MP3, I left the high velocities way up there for the first very few notes, Then, in the Velocity control pane of the PRV, I swept sharply down to somewhere around the values of 40. Then, making sure I didn't make any perfect lines, I moved my hand up and down to keep the velocities somewhat random, as I made a curve going up to the maximum velocity.

    --ALTERNATIVELY, and easier, is to select the clip, and using the velocity scaling tool using a percentage, not an absolute value. Type in a starting percentage, perhaps 35% or so, and type in an ending value of 100%. That way, all the varying velocity values will remain intact, except you'll have a crescendo. Doing it this way, you won't have that initially loud attack like in the MP3. If you want that, go to PRV and draw it in as above.

    That's the way I always do my rolls. And I don't keep them for future reference. I always custom record them for a piece - it's a very quick and easy process, taking just a few minutes to do a roll.

    Randy
    Many thanks Randy, I'll give it a try. Since I often import MIDI files from Finale, I' not so used to playing things on the keyboard as you did in this case. You got very good results! And it will probably save me time, as after posting I went to my sequencer and drew in a series of 32nd notes (using the KS on the Timpani sample), played with the velocities and it came out not too bad. I'm going to try doing it by playing.

    John
    John Newell
    www.johnnewellmusic.com
    GPO4, Garritan World Instruments, Digital Performer 7.24, Finale 2012, Miroslav Philharmonik

  7. #7

    Re: Timpani Roll

    Thanks Kevin "BVstudios" for what sounds like a good Finale approach to a roll. John, you should try that in Finale.
    Meanwhile, drawing in all those 32nd notes in DAW software is OK, except that it takes some time, and the results are quantized, impossibly perfect, like in a notation program. Turning the snap-to-grid off, and messing up their timing would be a must - but I encourage a keyboard to be used as much as possible when working with MIDI - instant, real "humanization" better than any which is faked.

    I see you used the Roll sample set in the KS Tympani - double your money on those 32nd notes. I often use the Roll layers on Garritan instruments, for more easily getting fast strumming on a Banjo and other stringed instruments, for instance.

    BUT - John! I was whipping through that post so fast earlier - It was bothering me that my instructions seemed too simple. I forgot some things that I Always do-- try this as an experiment:

    --After recording the roll, I use the tool in Sonar that changes the link of a MIDI clip. I reduce it to 50% of its original length. Instantly the roll is more believable, faster, smoother sounding.

    Then I copy and paste that clip as needed to make the length I want.

    THEN, after all that, I do the velocity work for the crescendo.

    Now, there, that's the for real full method I always use for drum rolls with GPO. That demo you heard was shortened that way to make the hits faster.--Obviously it doesn't matter at all to me that the rolls I do are in free time, with no regard for note length value - As long as the roll is covering the amount of time it's supposed to, that's all that matters to me.

    Randy

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