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Topic: SOT: Anyone using an expression pedal with an Axiom 61?

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  1. #1

    SOT: Anyone using an expression pedal with an Axiom 61?



    Hola y'all,
    I recently bought a "Behringer FCV100 Dual-Mode Foot Pedal for Volume and Modulation Control".

    I want to use it to control modulation in GPO and Instant Orchestra but it's not working like the mod wheel... it doesn't fade to no sound or change the layers of instruments (it only seems to control volume not the rest of the data).
    I looked in the Axiom manual to see how to set the "expr out" to modulation (channel 1) instead of the default expression (channel 11) but it appears I'm not smart enough to decipher the steps.
    Can someone please give me a step-by-step process?
    Thanks very much,
    GRB

  2. #2

    Re: SOT: Anyone using an expression pedal with an Axiom 61?

    Hi, Randy - I've been looking up info online for you.

    Interesting pedal you have. It's a dual purpose unit, being an audio signal volume pedal (like guitar players use) which can be switched to a pedal to plug into keyboards. Running it in "CV" mode (Control Voltage) doesn't require a battery like for audio volume control. You're wanting just the MIDI features. So, you don't want the rocker switch set to "Normal"---and you already understand that.

    The company literature I saw on a number of sites says, "...Dedicated modulation function for direct connection to keyboard's
    modulation control input..." And that's a bit curious - Keyboards don't usually have an input for modulation. They generally have a Sustain jack and an Expression jack.


    Elsewhere I found, "...If you use the CV mode, you will be able to control modulation and volume levels of other musical instruments by connecting output 2 to the volume or modulation input of the instrument..." OK, so you need to use output 2 for this MIDI mode - but here it's saying the type of data that will be controlled is determined by which jack you plug into, "volume or modulation." Again, --I don't understand this reference to a modulation jack - I've never seen one on a keyboard.

    But the pedal itself is just sending CV info - it doesn't care how the receiving unit interprets what it sends out. In other words, you're on the right track in trying to program your Axiom keyboard, and not the pedal.

    Looking up info on Axiom keyboard, I see they have "1 sustain pedal socket - 1 expression pedal socket."

    INSERT: I do see that users generally seem to have a problem with the range available on the pedal. Like, this user had the same problem you have of not getting the full range he wanted - "...In CV mode as an expression pedal, the pedal would hit and read its max point just past the half position and stay at max until completely level. I recalibrated it several times in the G Major processor, but the pedal would still max out just past the half position. I would not recommend this pedal..."

    I've been looking at the PDF manual for Axioms. In Appendix D, it seems to be saying that any MIDI controls can be assigned to the Expression pedal, or the Mod Wheel, Aftertouch strip etc.

    Section 2.4.2 of the manual is where the steps are outlined for assigning MIDI CCs to a control on the keyboard, and apparently this applies to the pedal jack also. The steps are slightly different depending on which size of Axiom you have.

    That's the best I can do - here's a C&P of that part of the manual:

    ------------------------------------------------

    2.4.2 Programming the Controls on Your Axiom

    When programming a physical controller on your Axiom, the controller that was last used will be the first one selected for
    programming. To select a different physical controller for programming, use one of the following two methods:

    Method 1:

    25-, 49- and 61-note versions:

    < Move the physical controller you wish to program, or press the assignable button or pad.

    Method 2:

    49- and 61-note versions:

    < Press Chan Assign and Ctrl Assign together to access the Ctrl Select setting.

    < The LCD display will flash the last used control.

    < Use the numeric keypad to enter the number of the physical controller you want to select for programming.

    25-note version:

    < Press the Advanced button.

    < Press the Ctrl Select key on the keyboard.

    < The LCD display will show the last used control.

    < Use the numeric data entry keys to enter the number of the physical controller you want to select for
    programming.

    < Press the Enter key to confirm and return to performance mode.

    The advantage of method 2 is that you do not have to move a control to select it – so there is no danger of disturbing a
    parameter on the MIDI device you are controlling.

    Programming a control:

    49- and 61-note versions:

    < Select the physical controller for programming using method 1 or 2 above.

    < Press the Ctrl Assign button.

    < The LCD display will show the currently assigned MIDI controller number The physical controller you are
    programming is displayed in the bottom left hand corner of the LCD display for clarity.

    < Use the numeric keypad or the -/+ buttons to enter the MIDI controller number 0-131 as defined in Appendix C.

    25-note version:

    < Select the physical controller for programming using method 1 or 2 above.

    < Press the Advanced button.

    < Press the Ctrl Assign key on the keyboard.

    < The LCD display will show the currently assigned MIDI controller number The physical controller you are
    programming is displayed in the bottom left hand corner of the LCD display for clarity.

    < Use the numeric data entry keys or the -/+ buttons to enter the MIDI controller 0-131 as defined in Appendix C.

    < Press the Enter key to confirm and return to performance mode.

    The settings for your controllers can be saved to any of the 20 memory locations on your Axiom. This process is
    explained in detail in section 3.2.

    Note: By default, the LCD display shows transmitted real time controller values between 0 and 127 as a physical control
    like an encoder or fader is being moved. Alternatively, the LCD can be configured to only show the assigned controller
    number of the currently used physical controller (e.g. controller number 7 for Volume). The LCD display mode can be
    changed as follows:

    < Press the Zone Range and Zone/Group buttons together.

    < The LCD will display OFF.

    < Simultaneously press the Zone Range and Zone/Group buttons again to change the LCD back to its default mode.
    The LCD will display ON.
    ------------------------------------------------
    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: SOT: Anyone using an expression pedal with an Axiom 61?

    First of all, let me say thank you so much for your effort!
    Yes I read some complaints about the pedal too but I thinking/hope it's due to my ignorance.
    I'm not sure why I didn't find what you pointed out in the manual but they are pretty specific as to how to go about changing the default from ch 11 to 1.
    That said, the pedal is actually changing the layers of instruments as the mod wheel does (YAY!!!!)
    However the data being sent (on the 0-127 scale) starts with 65 instead of zero so I'm halfway there so to speak.
    I'm off to find out how to change that 65 to a zero...wish me luck.

    EDIT: I found it and it was set to zero.
    So if the minimum is set to 0 it's actually 65
    set to 20 it equals 75
    set to30 it equals 80
    set to 40 it equals 84 (huh?)
    set to 50 it equals 89
    set to 60 it equals 94
    set to 70 it equals 99
    I sure hope I can figure this out because I foolishly threw away the box and can't return it.

  4. #4

    Re: SOT: Anyone using an expression pedal with an Axiom 61?

    Quote Originally Posted by GRB53 View Post
    First of all, let me say thank you so much for your effort!
    Yes I read some complaints about the pedal too but I thinking/hope it's due to my ignorance.
    I'm not sure why I didn't find what you pointed out in the manual but they are pretty specific as to how to go about changing the default from ch 11 to 1.
    That said, the pedal is actually changing the layers of instruments as the mod wheel does (YAY!!!!)
    However the data being sent (on the 0-127 scale) starts with 65 instead of zero so I'm halfway there so to speak.
    I'm off to find out how to change that 65 to a zero...wish me luck.

    EDIT: I found it and it was set to zero.
    So if the minimum is set to 0 it's actually 65
    set to 20 it equals 75
    set to30 it equals 80
    set to 40 it equals 84 (huh?)
    set to 50 it equals 89
    set to 60 it equals 94
    set to 70 it equals 99
    I sure hope I can figure this out because I foolishly threw away the box and can't return it.
    Glad I helped some, at least you have the pedal triggering CC1 the way you want. But I'm afraid you're up against what I read online about the pedal - it just doesn't seem able to start at zero. Maybe you'll find a magic formula for making that happen, but there seems to be a limit to how it can be calibrated. If you Do get it to give you the full range, you could post your findings at places like Amazon, to help other owners.

    Dang - it's too bad you can't return it. There are pedals meant just for keyboards which definitely give you the full range of 0 to 127, like my M-Audio EX-P.

    Randy

  5. #5

    Re: SOT: Anyone using an expression pedal with an Axiom 61?

    Dang I started to buy that pedal (same price as the one I bought) until I saw some of the reviews at B and H.
    These were mostly saying it's flimsy/cheap...would you disagree?
    The good news is, after I thinking again how stupid I was to throw the box away before making sure it worked it dawned on me...hey wait I ain't that dam stupid!!! I went out to the garage and sure enough I saved the box so I can return it after all.
    So my question to you my friend is, do you feel your M-Audio pedal is durable enough to last at least a year?
    Thanks Randy,
    GRB

  6. #6

    Re: SOT: Anyone using an expression pedal with an Axiom 61?

    Quote Originally Posted by GRB53 View Post
    Dang I started to buy that pedal (same price as the one I bought) until I saw some of the reviews at B and H.
    These were mostly saying it's flimsy/cheap...would you disagree?
    The good news is, after I thinking again how stupid I was to throw the box away before making sure it worked it dawned on me...hey wait I ain't that dam stupid!!! I went out to the garage and sure enough I saved the box so I can return it after all.
    So my question to you my friend is, do you feel your M-Audio pedal is durable enough to last at least a year?
    Thanks Randy,
    GRB
    Hey, things are looking up - good deal on finding the box.

    You know, I look at user comments "reviews" (everyone's a critic nowadays) of gear online, and the most common complaint is "Ah it's cheap, it's flimsy." Maybe some of those users are remembering the days, like I do, when everything--EVerything was made out of metal. My oldest keyboard is solid metal. All gear was housed in metal boxes. But those days are gone, and at least for the home recordist, it simply doesn't matter.

    I've had my M-Audio EX-P pedal for over a year now and it's still like new. It's made of hard plastic, but I don't find anything about it to be "flimsy." Works great. You can calibrate it however you want. Very simple. No battery, you just plug it into your keyboard's port.

    SO - it's what I use. I was thinking of getting a Roland keyboard to go with my then-new Roland keyboard, but my very helpful Sweetwater rep said there was no point in spending twice the money, because the pedals were pretty much identical.

    In other words--If you can swing an exchange, I encourage you to do so.

    Randy

  7. #7

    Re: SOT: Anyone using an expression pedal with an Axiom 61?

    Well you know exactly what I want an expression pedal to do (essentially be a foot operated mod wheel) since you also use IO....so if it's working for you then I'll go with the M-Audio.
    That said I just talked to Behringer support via phone. The guy sounded knowledgeable about the device and insisted my issue is not due to the pedal but that it's a setting in my axiom 61.
    He suggested I call them and if they confirm I have indeed made the correct settings in the controller I should call him back.
    I've tried M-Audio phone contact several times though but only get a busy signal.
    I'll report back when I've decided what I'm going to do.
    Thanks very much Randy,
    GRB

  8. #8

    Re: SOT: Anyone using an expression pedal with an Axiom 61?

    I was going to suggest getting the M-Audio EX-P but Randy already beat me to it; it's meant specifically for MIDI keyboards that have an expression pedal input (like your Axiom).

    That Behringer pedal seems kind of odd to me. No where does it say anything about MIDI in its product description. Seems more like a pedal to use with something like keyboard synthesizers or guitar pedals.

    Iacobus

  9. #9

    Re: SOT: Anyone using an expression pedal with an Axiom 61?

    Quote Originally Posted by GRB53 View Post
    ...
    That said I just talked to Behringer support via phone. The guy sounded knowledgeable about the device and insisted my issue is not due to the pedal but that it's a setting in my axiom 61...
    That's possible! - But, speaking of your keyboard - I'm not understanding why you're not using its Mod Wheel? Is it because it's spring loaded?-- A lot of people have trouble using a foot pedal for volume control, even when the pedal is doing what it should.

    I got my pedal with my new keyboard because the A-Pro has a spring action mod stick, and I knew that wouldn't work for Garritan. The stick snaps back to zero on its own. That's great for some controller data, but not when CC1 or 11 is being used for volume. I'm happy enough with using a pedal, but I would have to say it's not quite as easy as using a wheel.

    And I always need to do hand editing with my CC data in the PRV of Sonar - That would be regardless of what I used for a physical controller.

    Randy

  10. #10

    Re: SOT: Anyone using an expression pedal with an Axiom 61?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    That's possible! - But, speaking of your keyboard - I'm not understanding why you're not using its Mod Wheel? Is it because it's spring loaded?-- A lot of people have trouble using a foot pedal for volume control, even when the pedal is doing what it should.

    I got my pedal with my new keyboard because the A-Pro has a spring action mod stick, and I knew that wouldn't work for Garritan. The stick snaps back to zero on its own. That's great for some controller data, but not when CC1 or 11 is being used for volume. I'm happy enough with using a pedal, but I would have to say it's not quite as easy as using a wheel.

    And I always need to do hand editing with my CC data in the PRV of Sonar - That would be regardless of what I used for a physical controller.

    Randy
    It's not spring loaded and like you I'm going to wind up editing the data anyway but when I am fumbling around with ideas I want to use 2 hands on the keys and not be distracted with the wheel (and since they're only $30 why not have one : )

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