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Topic: new library to be released by DS Soundware!

  1. #1

    new library to be released by DS Soundware!

    In keeping with our policy of \"if your going to do something you better do it better than anyone else\" I am pleased to announce a new library that should be availble by middle to late November.

    DS Soundware\'s Ultimate Drum set library!

    The library will be centered around 3 different sets from Pearl, Yamaha, and DW. As well as three different cymbal sets from Zildjian, Sabian, and Paiste.

    One of the things that will be very unique and quite helpful about this library is that you will be able to load complete sets of drums and cymbals OR mix and match drums from the different companies and cymbals.

    For example...
    If you really liked the toms from the Pearl set the snare from the Yamaha set and the DW kick then you could put that together as your \"custom\" set. You can also overlay different cymbals manufactures. For example you could use a Sabian hi-hat, the Paiste crash\'s, and the Zildjian rides. But the cool thing about all of this is that you don\'t have to program anything! You will be able to load and overlay .gigs on top of each other to create the sets.

    Here is some of what is planned and as always PLEASE feel free to make any suggestions.

    Snares, toms, and floor tom: Right and left hand samples, 8 velocities, 3 different types of heads to choose from, wood tip sticks, plastic tip sticks, wire brushes, plastic brushes, blastics, rods...

    Kicks: 4 velocites, 6 different beaters (hard felt, wood, etc.)

    Cymbals: 13 and 14\" hi-hats with 8 different variations between open and closed controlled via the mod wheel. 14-18\" crash cymbals and 18- 22\" inch rides. All of these will have 8 velocities and will have hits with all the above mentioned mallets. Splash, China, and specialty cymbals will also be included.

    We will also include some tamb\'s, cowbells, and other acces. intruments to help round things out.

    So what do you think? Any ideas on a fair price? We\'re not sure how many disc\'s it will be yet but I would think at least two. Again, please feel to add anything that you would like to see. Our goal with our libraries is that you will not have to use anything else so don\'t be shy.

    Donnie Christian
    DS Soundware

  2. #2

    Re: new library to be released by DS Soundware!


    Thanks for the input...First of all yes everything will be done with right and left hand samples. As far as the recording tech. we are still deciding which will work best. I agree that having the ringing of the other instruments is good but everytime you hit the drum you will get the same ringing. So I\'m not sure how we will do it yet...

    As far as the heads are concerned I guess this is a drummer thing but having different head types is very important to us. Without getting into to much detail right now (not much time to write) you use different heads for different types of music and since we want this TO be all things to ALL people we are going to try to include as much as possible.

    Thanks for the great input (as always)


  3. #3

    Re: new library to be released by DS Soundware!

    I\'ve been looking for a proper hihat for ages now. There\'s just no libraries available for getting that expressive swing i\'d like.
    A good start would be to have at least 12 (though i\'d like alot more...) velocities for every variation from closed to open. most available libraries don\'t come close to what\'s needed regarding the variations between closed and open hats. Most often you only have hits from closed to open in one velocity. sad.
    I\'ll put the \"ds soundware ultimate hihat\" on my wishlist...

  4. #4

    Re: new library to be released by DS Soundware!

    Donnie, this sounds like it could be very cool, I don\'t
    currently have a great kit that I love and would love
    to have a nicely recorded set with a broad
    \'vocabulary\'. My biggest beef is that it\'s hard
    to get a kit that sits together nicely, maybe it\'s a
    great sounding kick that overpowers the snare, or
    the toms aren\'t nicely tuned to the rest of
    the kit or the instruments aren\'t well tuned
    to each other or the snare sounds like it\'s in
    a different room than the other drums...

    Another beef is grainy cymbals, most digital
    recordings of this just sound bad, not smooth like a
    fine cymbal in person. I\'ve heard a few good ones,
    though, so it can be done, but I think it
    takes a great mic, preamp, ADC\'s, room, and a
    recording engineer with good ears and great
    drum sensibilities.

    An interesting thing, some of the kits I have heard
    that sit together well don\'t really have any
    great sounding individual drums. I hope you can do
    better than that...

    Finally, I\'m interested in how you program it. For
    a variety of reasons I\'m still on Gigasampler, which doesn\'t
    have choke groups that are pretty much essential
    to proper cymbals. Sometimes I simulate this by
    programming the sustain times of my drums which can
    work fine but is a pain. Sometimes I audition my
    kits in GS, pick the samples I\'m going to use and
    move thise samples to Reality which has proper
    choke groups and much better synth and modulation
    abilities, which can make for better drum lines
    from a small number of samples.

    I think your ideas sound great so far, I\'d love
    to have a kit such as you describe.


  5. #5

    Re: new library to be released by DS Soundware!

    Hi Donnie,
    Here\'s a question for you. I plan on purchasing an electronic drum kit (thinking of the clavia ddrum system 4). Is there any way to use a sample library such as yours, controlled by an electronic drum kit? If so, what are some types of things to consider in getting a sample library to replicate dynamics of real drumkit playing? Thanks.

  6. #6

    Re: new library to be released by DS Soundware!


    Excellent question. Actually yes you can use sample libraries with electronic drum systems as long as you can asign individual notes to pads...ie. a snare drum on middle c to a particular pad. I think what makes a library great for any kind of playing (especially live) is variations in timbre and velocities. It\'s the little nuances that often are lacking from electronic drum playing. No matter how hard or soft you hit a pad you only get on dynamic level. This is one of the things that I hope we are able to overcome.


  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Burbank, CA. US of Mexico

    Re: new library to be released by DS Soundware!

    Hi Donnie.
    Do yourself a favor and check out the Peter Erskine Living drums CD. I does fail to produce ultra realistic performances but that is only because of the lack of dynamics and variations. However, the way that it is recorded is amazing. I have never heard its equal on any sampled drumset. However, Tom Hopkin\'s (a fellow giga user) drumset comes very close.

    The reason why the PE sets sound so good is because each hit is recorded with the whole drumset resonating with each other. If you sample each drum separately it won\'t sound that realistic. On the PE set, when you hit the snare, you hear it resonating in the wood of the toms and reflecting off of the hardware. It makes a huge difference!

    I don\'t know that having different heads will make that much of a difference. It may be overkill, but you would know better than I.

    One thing that you didn\'t mention that I\'m sure you\'ve considered is doing L-R variations of all the hits. That was a very good move with your orch. Perc library and will give a drumset library an edge.

    You need to have a thousand variations of the high-hat. To me, that\'s the most expressive part of the drumkit and yet the most negelected in sample libraries. Here\'s an idea: use vice grips to close the HH pedal and then do a bunch of hits (L-R, slap, sidestick, bead, etc.) then loosen the vicegrips a little bit and do the same thing with the looser variation. Keep doing that so that you get all of the subtleties of the pedal control.

    That\'s all I can think of. Looking forward to hearing what you come up with!

  8. #8

    Re: new library to be released by DS Soundware!


    Another beef is grainy cymbals, most digital
    recordings of this just sound bad, not smooth like a
    fine cymbal in person. I\'ve heard a few good ones,
    though, so it can be done, but I think it
    takes a great mic, preamp, ADC\'s, room, and a
    recording engineer with good ears and great
    drum sensibilities.

    I couldn\'t agree more.
    I think cymbals are hard to digitize because of there complex pattern high frequency waves.
    As mentioned to capture them accurately you need great mics , preamps and higher bit rate convertion than 16 bits [24 preffered]
    I think cymbals are a instrument that really show the limitations of the 16 bit format.

    Most recording studios in my area that use electronic drums use real cymbals because of the limitations of the traditional electronic ones.

    So high bit rate conversion and 8 velocities would be a great improvment over the current statusque

  9. #9

    Re: new library to be released by DS Soundware!


    Looking for a great drum set.

    Please include with the brushes a sample which drags the brush across the snare head. As you hear in jazz ballads-sort of \"stirring the soup\" motion that makes that \"shhhhhhh\" sound. Wih single hits we won\'t be able to get that sound.

    Also, for me, I realy appreciate a snare sound spread over the \"D\" \"Eb\" and \"E\" keys of the keyboard. This allows me to do \"three-fingered rolls\". Please make sure that all three of these snare sounds are different samples to avoid that artificial phasing sound that can occur from the same sample being played quickly.

    Also, no groove loops! Just single hits and a few pre-composed things like described above with the brushes. Actually the snares in your Orchestral set have pre-made rolls which I really appreciate.

  10. #10

    Re: new library to be released by DS Soundware!


    --I would strongly urge limiting the number of drum kits and cymbal brands to one or two, and record even MORE dynamic levels, perhaps even the maximum of 16, for each instrument, hi-hat setting, etc. Despite what the posters said in the ``sample bloat\'\' thread, I think it\'ll be VERY worth it to get the better realism that you can accomplish with higher numbers of velocity splits.

    --I agree that the 2 Erskine kits sound great, and if IO composer is correct that it\'s because they\'ve sampled the kit buzz along with the hits, then I\'d recommend that.

    --AND, most importantly: Record and edit everything in 24-bit using top-notch gear, and have a 24-bit sample bank ready to go when GigaStudio is upgraded to handle 24-bit files (Nemesis has said they will do that eventually). Then, you can dither down to a 16-bit set for now, but you\'ll have a 24-bit set ready to go for later, as a ``re-release\'\' or ``upgrade\'\'


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