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Topic: here's and idea

  1. #1

    here\'s and idea

    I got to thinking about something with all the talk about peoples opinions with the demo\'s that were recently posted. Some people are hearing to much reverb some not enough,some weak high frequencies some strong high frequencies etc. I trully believe that the differences are not so much in taste but in monitoring systems. For example I sent a piece to a buddy of mine a couple of weeks ago and he said that the reverb seemed really heavy and made the piece sound \"fake\". However on my system it sounded fine. The problem was that I was listening to mine on my system which is going out to Event 20/20 bas\'s. He was listening to it through his computer speakers. So I decided to listen to the same thing through my computer speakers and it did sound real reverb heavy.
    Having worked for a very large pro audio retailer and testing every set of pro monitors known to man I can tell you that there is a pretty big difference between most makes and models. My guess is that \"this\" is what we are actually hearing not to mention those that are listening through computer speakers and are trying to make comments on these pieces.

    I would suggest that everyone post what they are monitoring through when they make comments on posted pieces. This might actually make for another interesting topic of dicussion.


  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Burbank, CA. US of Mexico

    Re: here\'s and idea

    I use 5 Mackie HR824s both at work and at home. I don\'t think I\'ve ever enjoyed mixing on anything as I much as I do with these. I *hate* mixing on NS10s. They\'re so old school. They were great 20 years ago, but today\'s mixes require more than they can offer

    Donnie, I have to disagree with you in regards to reverb. Yes, certain speakers are going to pronounce different frequencies, but the end result is that you need to make it sound realistic on all speakers, whether they\'re $50 Altec Lansings or $50K JBLs. That\'s why I subjected myself to the miriad of listeners on this BB. I got feedback from all angles and chased after resolving what others were hearing. Ultimately, the best thing to do is to take your mixes to all kinds of listening environments with different consumer speakers. Mixing on computer speakers is a good idea, but I\'m simply too spoiled to stoop that low

  3. #3

    Re: here\'s and idea

    yeah they are old school but I \"know them\". I think knowing your monitors and room is MUCH MUCH more important that having the latest and greatest monitors. Tho the Mackies are nice, and yes I do need some better low end in my monitoring environment...then again I do multiple mixes and check them on multiple systems from Surround Sound to Mono...to the damn car for film/animation soundtracks....

    I agree that the NS-10s are old,...and that new mixes for Film need much more,.but as I said I know them,..where they lack, and know what they boost so when final mix time comes I work with that. It seems to work well.

  4. #4

    Re: here\'s and idea

    Ok, good I knew this would get interesting...
    Oh, and please forgive my bad grammar in the topic

    King Idiot I could not agree with you more! Knowing your monitors is very important. A person who knows his NS10\'s really well can make a better mix than someone with a pair of genelec\'s. And as far as the NS10\'s are concerned this is a reason that you still see these monitors in many major studio\'s...They are very true and are a great B monitor source.
    As far as the HR824\'s are concerned yes they are very nice (and I used to sell A LOT of them) BUT many people do not like them because of the following reason...they have a dip in the mid range and a boost in the low range. This is good because, of course, this makes them sound really sweet BUT if you are not aware of this when you are mixing then you could end up with something that you do not want. But now and argument could be made that every pair of monitors has it\'s own eq curve in some way and ...yes they do...It\'s just a matter of finding something that you are comfortable with and you can mix effectively on.

    Jamey, I\'m still not sure if I agree with you on the monitor thing not being that different. When I listen to something on my computer speakers it sounds completely different than when I listen to it on my 20/20\'s.

    The bottom line is that you should always reference your mix on what people are going to be listening to it most on..ie. computer, car stereo etc...

    just my 1 1/2 cents.


  5. #5

    Re: here\'s and idea

    It really depends on if you know what to listen for in the first place....

    trained ears do wonders

  6. #6

    Re: here\'s and idea

    Actually if we\'re gonna go there, we should start talking monitoring rooms as well

    I understand where you are coming from, but I really think that its a matter of taste with the comments on reverbs that have been going around. Tho I\'ve made some that are comments that are based on something that is hard for me to explain...

    BTW, I\'ve got a pair of old NS-10M monitor speakers here, was thinking of going DS-90 or HR824, but may wait to hear the new Yammie\'s that everyone has been screaming about.

  7. #7

    Re: here\'s and idea

    If you\'re hearing substantially more reverb in your computer speakers than in the 20/20\'s, you are probably introducing phase distortion or some other phase relationship problem in your mixes. This could be caused by anything from cheap audio cables,(or cables with grounding problems), to overuse of EQ on your tracks.

    Now I\'d like to add my 2cents about speakers. I\'ve been doing this for 28 years and in the beginning did most of my work on JBL\'s usually either 4311\'s or 4313\'s. When I listen to the raw mixes of those tracks now they sound terrible. The JBL\'s over emphasized the low end resulting in no bottom end at all on the two track. The records ended up sounding OK because the Mastering labs compensated for the JBL\'s before pressing the vinyl. Then someone turned me onto Acoustic Research\'s AR18s monitors and the \"raw\" mixes almost didn\'t need to be mastered at all anymore. Then came the NS10m\'s which became so popular that every studio was expected to have them. The NS10\'s really sounded almost exactly like the AR18\'s except the AR\'s had better low end. The Yamaha\'s were replaced by Genlec 1019\'s which had better low end than either of the others and a much sweeter high end. Now I\'m using using the Mackie HR824\'s and to me they are the real deal. I still use the Genlec\'s too but mostly when I want to mix at a lower volume.

    After all that I think my advice about monitors would be to(1) buy the best you can afford to buy,(2) Don\'t just take them out of the box and start mixing... first spend a few days listening to commercial CD\'s that you know are well produced(and mastered)*,(3) adjust the speakers! Use your ears not a spectrum analyzer. If they\'re bi-amped tweek the hi and low attenuators until they fit what you want to hear. Move them a few inches closer to you or farther away or up and down...you get the picture. Then when the commercial CD sounds best to you it\'s time to start mixing your own stuff. I think it\'s a good idea from time to time to check back to the before mentioned commercial CD to refresh you ears on their \"target\"!
    Sorry to be so long-winded about this but I hope you\'ll find it to be \"sound advice\", or at least somewhat helpful.


  8. #8

    Re: here\'s and idea

    Sorry, I put an asterisk in concerning my choice of a\"modeling\" CD for my tune up and I meant to tell you that is Sting\'s \"Ten Summoner\'s Tales\". If I\'m working on a classical project it\'s usually a John Williams soundtrack, either \"Raiders of the Lost Ark\" or \"ET\", (depending on the mood of the upcoming project).

    Your choice should be something you know and trust!


  9. #9

    Re: here\'s and idea

    Just a side note a little off topic, if you have an old amp /tuner lying around . . . For Those Of You Who Want To Check A Mix via computer speaker. Check out small KLH speakers (model 403A) at a local Best Buy. They run them on sale for $12 each every couple of months. These are 3way 5\"x5\"x8\" (box dimensions) unpowered (thats why you need some type of an amp - just take the output from soundcard). They come with wall mounting brackets. Super cheap and sound good at volume, just add a cheap subwoofer ($35 at a computer flea market / show), and you have great computer sound for low bucks even using cheap soundcard (I get a good sound with this set-up and a cheapo $20 DR Research sound card). By the way if you have speaker A /B switch on your recording set-up you can use your regular moniter and press a button to switch to these cheapos to see how well your mix translates quick and easy. By the way, my brother uses a couple sets of these just as stereo speakers (he\'s got one set outside by the jacuzzi, they have been out there for a year and have held up fine). These cheapos are a great bang for the buck. Check them out, you cant go wrong for $25.

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