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Topic: newbie question about CC's

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  1. #1

    newbie question about CC's

    Hi

    Just getting my head around various terms being used in the forums. I don't really understand what CC's are in this context? (use them in emailing all the time!).

    Can someone give me a paragraph explanation? I am using Garritan Brass with an Maudio 88 key midi trigger keyboard that only has mod wheel and pitch bend wheel. It is programmable but I have never really 'gone there'.

    How do CC's relate to my set up when using the Aria player?

    I notice there are no keyswitches for the saxaphones; am I missing something or are these controlled via CC's?

    ps I did a 'search' for cc in the forum search box, but it said the term was too short to be counted! great!

    barry

  2. #2

    Re: newbie question about CC's

    Hi, and welcome to the forum. CCs are Midi controllers. Usually written for example as cc# followed by the number of the controller being mentioned, so cc#1. Some number examples are: modulation is controlled with cc#1 volume with cc#7 expression with cc#11 There are also a lot of unssigned controllers which can be used by a plugin to control various features. So using the Aria player as an example, when you load an instrument, the Controls tab of the player will show you what CC numbers are used to control the dials. Loading brass, you might have Porta (CC20), Length (CC21) and so on. If you are using a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) program, then you can manually adjust all the controls you want on a track in order to get the desired automated control.

    Heres a common controller list for the MIDI numbers http://www.openoctave.org/the_compos...er_assignments

    ** note, all the quotes and apostrophes I used in the post turned into " and ' when posted. Very annoying...
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  3. #3

    Re: newbie question about CC's

    hi

    Many thanks for taking the time to explain. Getting there! So how do these cc[numbers] relate back to my midi keyboard? So if I wanted to make a single saxaphone note more 'breathy' I can? Is this done via the keyboard or in Cubase? Is it possible to change the articulation of a single note?

    I also notice there are no keyswitches in the brass software for saxaphones? Is this deliberate?


    barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Plowking View Post
    Hi, and welcome to the forum. CCs are Midi controllers. Usually written for example as cc# followed by the number of the controller being mentioned, so cc#1. Some number examples are: modulation is controlled with cc#1 volume with cc#7 expression with cc#11 There are also a lot of unssigned controllers which can be used by a plugin to control various features. So using the Aria player as an example, when you load an instrument, the Controls tab of the player will show you what CC numbers are used to control the dials. Loading brass, you might have Porta (CC20), Length (CC21) and so on. If you are using a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) program, then you can manually adjust all the controls you want on a track in order to get the desired automated control.

    Heres a common controller list for the MIDI numbers http://www.openoctave.org/the_compos...er_assignments

    ** note, all the quotes and apostrophes I used in the post turned into " and ' when posted. Very annoying...

  4. #4

    Re: newbie question about CC's

    A bit finer explanation on CCs is that they are continuous controllers, that is, they are meant to have data streamed to them over the midi channels. The way it relates to the keyboard is that the "wheels" on the side of the keyboard and you can pitchbend a note or change the volume or the like. Usually keyboards have a Pitch Bend wheel and a Mod Wheel (there are standard controller numbers for these).

    Key switching is a "new" way of changing patches/sounds. Some of the patches will let you switch between a flute and a sax while others allow you to switch different articulations--depends upon the library designer. This is difficult to play live (but not impossible).

    The problem with certain types of articulations on a brass or wind instrument is many CCs are needed to get the sounds "right" and doing it "live" from a keyboard is nearly impossible. The closest thing I have used for this is a wind instrument like the EWI.

    Here is a post to a Simple Sax Reference Project I posted earlier.

  5. #5

    Re: newbie question about CC's

    If you are using Cubase, there is the piano roll edit screen (key edit) together with the list edit and the in-place edit in which you can show any number of different CCs controlling all the variables available, up to the capacity of your computer. There are basically 128 different CCs to use but you need to understand what they do and when. ARIA player does not use the standard set given as part of the MIDI spec but it is very similar in most respects. You can enter CCS in Cubase by a musical keyboard, a typewriter keyboard, by drawing with your mouse - most anyways.
    Derek
    Things may come and things may go but the art school dance goes on forever
    NOW WITH Cubase 5, JABB,GPO, Fender Strat, Ibanez RG, Yamaha Fretless Bass, Framus Archtop, The Trumpet and Mr T Sax, together with GREEN SEALING WAX


  6. #6

    SOLVED thisRe: newbie question about CC's

    Hi all,

    Spent some time with this today, and within Cubase, if you add the require Aria Player CC numbers to the midi CC list, then select the one you want to use; then view the midi edit screen, select just the note or set of notes, then double click and a midi editing screen appears, then select the pencil item from the top menus, select the cc effect from the list of available items, then 'draw' in the midi effect one CC at a time, it is possible to build up the various articulations in the saxaphone section, and of course the other sections. I guess the same would go for any VST instrument bank, so long as there is a clear CC chart saying what each does.

    I now need to get my head around Expression Maps; which look intriguing.

    thanks for everyone's help with this.


    Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by barryhill View Post
    Hi

    Just getting my head around various terms being used in the forums. I don't really understand what CC's are in this context? (use them in emailing all the time!).

    Can someone give me a paragraph explanation? I am using Garritan Brass with an Maudio 88 key midi trigger keyboard that only has mod wheel and pitch bend wheel. It is programmable but I have never really 'gone there'.

    How do CC's relate to my set up when using the Aria player?

    I notice there are no keyswitches for the saxaphones; am I missing something or are these controlled via CC's?

    ps I did a 'search' for cc in the forum search box, but it said the term was too short to be counted! great!

    barry

  7. #7

    Re: newbie question about CC's

    Barry, I was looking through image folders to find a screen shot showing the use of MIDI CCs, and came across something I'd forgotten about.

    Done over 4 years ago - Here's a one minute video screen cap graphically showing MIDI Controller #11 in action, being used to control the volume of the lead violin in one of my pieces:

    MIDI VOLUME CONTROL IN ACTION

    This vid capture was taken in a Piano Roll View, which is the MIDI editing screen you've started to use in Cubase. The top part shows the violin's notes. The "controller pane" below it is displaying the CC11 data which is controlling the violin's constantly fluctuating volume.

    That data was recorded with a mod wheel programmed to send out CC11 instead of the default CC1. With this particular instrument, the now discontinued Garritan Stradivari, CC1 controls vibrato, which is different from most Garritan instruments. Don't let that confuse you. This clip could just as well be showing you another Garritan instrument with CC1 being used to control volume.

    But notice the organic ebb and flow of the volume. It's emulating the way a violinist plays the instrument.

    Something very handy about ARIA - when you have an instrument loaded, on the Controls tab, all the CCs that control that instrument are listed. There are knobs labeled with which CC controls them. Just keep in mind that manually moving those controls with your mouse won't record data. For some controls you may want to "set and forget" a level, but often you'll want to record the data - definitely you'll want to record the volume data, for instance, to achieve something like I show in that video.

    In your MIDI editor, the PRV, you can always draw data in by hand, fine tuning what you've recorded from your keyboard, or draw in the entire track of data. The shortcoming of drawing something completely in from scratch is that you're likely to end up with a less nuanced "performance."

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: newbie question about CC's

    That's a very nice piece of music! And many thanks for the visual explanation, really helps. I will enjoy playing with this new midi skill... I have been recording midi pieces for years and have settled for waiting until I bounce the midi down as audio to manipulate volumes in the audio track and so on; It makes so much more sense to use the midi CC controllers until it sounds right.

    thanks again


    barry

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Barry, I was looking through image folders to find a screen shot showing the use of MIDI CCs, and came across something I'd forgotten about.

    Done over 4 years ago - Here's a one minute video screen cap graphically showing MIDI Controller #11 in action, being used to control the volume of the lead violin in one of my pieces:

    MIDI VOLUME CONTROL IN ACTION

    This vid capture was taken in a Piano Roll View, which is the MIDI editing screen you've started to use in Cubase. The top part shows the violin's notes. The "controller pane" below it is displaying the CC11 data which is controlling the violin's constantly fluctuating volume.

    That data was recorded with a mod wheel programmed to send out CC11 instead of the default CC1. With this particular instrument, the now discontinued Garritan Stradivari, CC1 controls vibrato, which is different from most Garritan instruments. Don't let that confuse you. This clip could just as well be showing you another Garritan instrument with CC1 being used to control volume.

    But notice the organic ebb and flow of the volume. It's emulating the way a violinist plays the instrument.

    Something very handy about ARIA - when you have an instrument loaded, on the Controls tab, all the CCs that control that instrument are listed. There are knobs labeled with which CC controls them. Just keep in mind that manually moving those controls with your mouse won't record data. For some controls you may want to "set and forget" a level, but often you'll want to record the data - definitely you'll want to record the volume data, for instance, to achieve something like I show in that video.

    In your MIDI editor, the PRV, you can always draw data in by hand, fine tuning what you've recorded from your keyboard, or draw in the entire track of data. The shortcoming of drawing something completely in from scratch is that you're likely to end up with a less nuanced "performance."

    Randy

  9. #9

    Re: newbie question about CC's

    Quote Originally Posted by barryhill View Post
    That's a very nice piece of music! And many thanks for the visual explanation, really helps. I will enjoy playing with this new midi skill... I have been recording midi pieces for years and have settled for waiting until I bounce the midi down as audio to manipulate volumes in the audio track and so on; It makes so much more sense to use the midi CC controllers until it sounds right.

    thanks again


    barry
    Hello again, Barry - I'm glad the visuals helped, and thanks for the compliments on the music. It's an instrumental version of a song from my stage musical based on "The Picture of Dorian Gray."

    It's excellent you're now wanting to conquer this MIDI CC thing - In case you need any more encouragement, here's something very important: Doing all your volume control on audio tracks is basically just turning a volume knob up and down, and the results can sound like it. When you use proper MIDI volume control, you're also controlling the timbre of an instrument. Garritan instruments that respond to CC1 for volume will have a darker tone at low volumes, brighter at high volumes - which of course is natural. I know you'll be happy with the results you'll be getting.

    Take a look at that Control tab in ARIA - you'll find a number of CCs to work with, like "Var1 and Var2" (var standing for variation) - Those are for introducing pitch and tonal shifts on an instrument which is playing in ensemble with other instruments, simulating the discrepencies in the imperfect but natural performance of real instruments.

    Then, when you have your audio tracks recorded from more sophisticated MIDI tracks like that, you can still automate your mix, but much of the balancing detail and performance detail will already be in the tracks - so you won't need to do nearly as much volume work on those audio tracks.

    Thanks for the good questions!

    Randy

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