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Topic: Miroslav String Sample Users ???

  1. #1

    Miroslav String Sample Users ???

    I have recently purchased the Miroslav Vitous String Ensemble and have a question regarding the sounds I am hearing when playing on Gigastudio 96. When playing, for example, the 11 Violins, I hear what sounds like a wind noise behind the violins. It is very present. It gets more apparent on the higher notes. The 23 Violin samples sounds have even a louder wind noise in the background. My question is simple..is this the way the sounds are recorded? Do your samples have this kind of noise or background windy sound?
    I have come up with a couple alternatives for what I am hearing. The first is that the wind sound I am hearing is simply the natural reverberations of the violins within the hall or room in which they were recorded and provide a more realistic sound and that\'s a good thing. On the other hand, I\'m thinking, this sounds kinda strange and I should be considering that I\'ve got a problem with my software, soundcard, hardware, settings or something else. I just don\'t know. Someones help or advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2

    Re: Miroslav String Sample Users ???


    I don\'t know the Miroslav sample library, but I\'m guessing there\'s a good chance that what you\'re hearing is microphone noise.

    With a normal orchestral recording you have a few microphones positioned around the room to pick up the performance - that\'s fine. The amount of noise introduced by these mics is minor compared to the overall signal.

    On the other hand, when you\'re recording for sample playback, each time you record a single note you record the same amount of mic noise as if you\'d recorded the whole orchestra.

    That wouldn\'t be so bad either - if you only played a single note. However, in reality, when you attempt to imitate a full orchestra you end up playing back several samples. This means you\'re playing back several lots of microphone and room noise as well. These accumulate in a much less musical way than the actual string sound.

    On the other hand, maybe this isn\'t the case with Miroslav, and it IS something hissy in your soundcard.

    Do you hear this \'wind\' noise on all your other samples, or just the Miroslav ones?

  3. #3

    Re: Miroslav String Sample Users ???

    Another guess from somebody who doesn\'t have Miroslav...

    On the strings in Advanced Orchestra, especially on the solos but even in the ensembles, the sound of the bows scraping across the strings is very noticeable. Maybe this is what you\'re hearing?

    Of course this sound would have to get recorded along with the \"musical\" part of the sound (at least if the mic is close), but it does create some problems. For instance, stacking different instruments on top of one another can make the scraping sound get really loud.

  4. #4

    Re: Miroslav String Sample Users ???

    The scraping sound is a good example of another mistake library makers run into.

    Sometimes, probably because they\'re recording isolated sections, they end up miking the instruments closer than any orchestra would normally have mics - then you hear \'details\' which would never show up in an ensemble recording.

    Unfortunately, this detail is difficult to remove and gets in the way of a realistic emulation.

    [This message has been edited by Chadwick (edited 09-10-2000).]

  5. #5

    Re: Miroslav String Sample Users ???

    Chadwick, I have to disagree with you. It is not a \"typical mistake\" by the library makers. It is simply what a section of 11 (23) violins would sound like when playing in unison. You hear it whether you have the section mic\'ed or not. The sound naturally becomes more appearent as the number of instruments increase (which is how I would explain the noticable difference between sections of 11 and 23 violins). The solo violin is miced closer than the ensemble, hence the louder scraping noise. I don\'t find this to be a problem at all...

    The natural sound of the bow\'s friction against the string (especially noticable in the upper register of the violin section) is very welcomed by me. I think it is a musical feature of large string ensembles in unison that should be captured in the recording. Not concealed or removed. It adds a haunting tone to the upper register notes and I personally would never use a violin library without that sound. If you really don\'t want this sound I suppose you could remove some of it with filters, but the result would probably be unrealistic.

    Finally, Ramo Dan: This is what violins sound like. Like it or not (then again you could be getting some noise from your hardware)

    Compare the miroslav strings to any orchestral recording in which the violins play in unison in the upper register. Preferably violins alone. The scraping sound will get less obvious as the density of the orchestration grows.


  6. #6

    Re: Miroslav String Sample Users ???

    On the other hand...I have heard the same wind noise on some of the choir samples from Symphony of Voices when the volume is set high. I can only hear it on a few of the samples, which makes me think it is not a sound card thing. Also, if it is the same thing that he was hearing, it may not be bow scraping noises.

  7. #7

    Re: Miroslav String Sample Users ???

    That sound is indeed the result of less than ideal positioning of the microphones.

  8. #8

    Re: Miroslav String Sample Users ???

    Someone mentioned on this forum once before that this \"rushing\" sound, (which is I believe an unavoidable by-product of rubbing horse hair against catgut), sits around 440hz.
    I tried an eq at this setting and it does reduce this sound slightly. Obvously it can\'t be too much or the sound will be slightly muffled.

    Alistair Lock

  9. #9

    Re: Miroslav String Sample Users ???

    Chadwick, Thomas J, Alistar Lock and others.
    Thanks for the reply to my question.
    The wind noise I mentioned has sort of a funny quality to it. As I play single notes of 11 violin or 23 violin, moving up the scale (especially the high end), the magnitude of the wind noise increases, and, the frequency of the wind noise dosen\'t necessarily increase at the same rate as the note frequency increase. The violin note may increase frequency but the wind noise may not change or even decrease. So it seems a little odd and unnatural.
    In any case, these viloins in the overall orchestral mix of a piece I\'m workin on sound beautiful and I can\'t really hear the wind noise, so it seems to blend in, so no need to apply EQ here. However, the very first note of this piece uses just the 11-violin sample and the noise is apparent so maybe some EQ might help out, or some other way around it may be needed.
    I don\'t have any other gigasampler violin samples but my woodwinds, brass, percussions etc. all seem pretty clean so I\'m thinking the soundcard is probably OK. I\'m hoping to try out some other string samples and see what I hear.
    Anyway, thanks again for you thoughful responses.

  10. #10

    Re: Miroslav String Sample Users ???

    i have read that the miroslav instruments were recorded in an auditorium setting and are hence useful for those types of applications. Maybe the wind is part of that large sonic environment. I was told the strings on miroslav are not ideal for studio work where you want an intimate sound.The denny jaeger ones are though. So go plunk down another grand!

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