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Topic: Finally... the ultimate woodwinds!

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  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Sep 1999
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    Finally... the ultimate woodwinds!

    Hello all.
    In my never-ending quest to emulate an orchestra, I\'ve done a lot of work recently on the woodwind section. This thread started in the orchestrators thread, but I just posted a couple of examples for you to listen to on the northernsounds demo page, so I thought I\'d make a new thread.

    The problem that I\'ve been having with the woodwind libraries so far is that none of the samples I\'ve heard capture the expressiveness of woodwind instruments and therefore they end up sounding sterile and unmusical to my ears. Every ww library I\'ve used (AO, Miroslav, Xsample, etc.) ends up sounding like patched together pieces of a permance and lack expressive continuity, which IMO is the cornerstone of this section.

    To solve this, I\'ve been learning how to play a WX5 wind controller and have just now been able to produce some shockingly realistic ensemble woodwinds. Check out my 2 demos and see if you agree with me.

    The first demo is from Star Wars, it\'s a small section of the Jawa music and can be found here:
    http://www.northernsounds.com/demos/orchestra/JameyScott/JawaWWEx.mp3

    The second demo is from Dvorak 9, 1st movement and can be found here:
    http://www.northernsounds.com/demos/orchestra/JameyScott/Dvorak9Ex.mp3

    In both of these examples, the vibrato (or tremolo, if you prefer) is amplitude modulation via cc#2. The difference in attacks are accounted for by cc#2 as well.

    Thanks,
    IO

  2. #2

    Re: Finally... the ultimate woodwinds!

    Hello IOComposer,
    I would like to hear your demos, but the link is broken.

    Georg

  3. #3

    Re: Finally... the ultimate woodwinds!

    So what instrument or samples were you actually playing with your WX5?
    Ondrej

  4. #4
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    Re: Finally... the ultimate woodwinds!

    Sorry about that. I guess they haven\'t linked them up yet. PapaChalk must be sleeping

  5. #5

    Re: Finally... the ultimate woodwinds!

    IOComposer,
    I\'m really interested to hear these demos! I believe using a wind controller will bring about the most realistic sound. I used to use Yamaha BC3 breath controller with my SY99 with amplitude modulation set to the mod wheel - until I sold the synth. I hesitate to learn the WX5 and the Akai\'s EWI because I\'m a brass player. I was really diappointed that Akai discontinued the EVI controllers.
    I got the impression that you\'re a brass player as well, IOComposer. How\'s your experience with using the WX5? Any difficulty switching between playing brass and a reed-based instrument? I\'m considering using the Yamaha\'s BC3 with Midi Solutions\' wind controllers. Any suggestions?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Re: Finally... the ultimate woodwinds!

    Ondrej,
    Right now I\'m using a combination of Xsample, AO and vl70m. That\'s what\'s in these demos.
    Cheez,
    Yes, I am a trumpet player, but I started playing it close to 20 years ago and don\'t really have too many hang ups on it. Meaning, I don\'t practice anymore In college I had to take methods courses for all of the instrument families, so I had to rent an oboe for a semester, a clarinet for a semester and a flute. I learned the basic fingering and embouchure concepts. As a result, picking up the WX5 was no problem. I practiced about 5-6 hours a day in the first month that I got it, but now I\'m just practicing the parts that I\'m writing and I\'m starting to be able to perfect parts very quickly.

    I can understand your hesitancy, but if you can make the time to practice, you\'ll get good enough quickly. Having the concepts for the instruements really helps you emulate them much more successfully. Just knowing where the difficult fingering transitions occur on an instrument will likely influence you to write around those difficulties and therefor, make you a better orchestrator. That\'s what made Ravel such a great orchestrator, he wrote for the instruments rather than just the timbres that they represent.

    I don\'t know what\'s taking so long for those demos to post. I uploaded them on Thursday!
    -IO

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
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    Re: Finally... the ultimate woodwinds!

    Ondrej,
    Right now I\'m using a combination of Xsample, AO and vl70m. That\'s what\'s in these demos.
    Cheez,
    Yes, I am a trumpet player, but I started playing it close to 20 years ago and don\'t really have too many hang ups on it. Meaning, I don\'t practice anymore In college I had to take methods courses for all of the instrument families, so I had to rent an oboe for a semester, a clarinet for a semester and a flute. I learned the basic fingering and embouchure concepts. As a result, picking up the WX5 was no problem. I practiced about 5-6 hours a day in the first month that I got it, but now I\'m just practicing the parts that I\'m writing and I\'m starting to be able to perfect parts very quickly.

    I can understand your hesitancy, but if you can make the time to practice, you\'ll get good enough quickly. Having the concepts for the instruements really helps you emulate them much more successfully. Just knowing where the difficult fingering transitions occur on an instrument will likely influence you to write around those difficulties and therefor, make you a better orchestrator. That\'s what made Ravel such a great orchestrator, he wrote for the instruments rather than just the timbres that they represent.

    I don\'t know what\'s taking so long for those demos to post. I uploaded them on Thursday!
    -IO

  8. #8

    Re: Finally... the ultimate woodwinds!

    Northern Sounds in located in Canada, and it is a \"long weekend\" here, with Friday being a holiday for some, and Monday being a holiday for most. The person responsible for moving the files is likely enjoying a few days off!

    Lawrence

  9. #9

    Re: Finally... the ultimate woodwinds!

    The mp3\'s sound pretty good.
    Could you post some mp3\'s of the wind controller + brass samples?
    thanks.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    Re: Finally... the ultimate woodwinds!

    Unfortunately, I don\'t have anything that I\'m able to post. The stuff that I\'ve done so far is all professional stuff that I\'m not authorized to release. However, I do a weekly flash cartoon for Mad Magazine (madmag.com) that does have some of the two sections mixed. It\'s a mixed bag of musical styles, so don\'t be surprised if you hear Jazz or circus music. Next week\'s cartoon is all orchestral. Check it out if you have a chance.
    -IO

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