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Topic: good samples/bad samples...you be the judge...

  1. #1

    good samples/bad samples...you be the judge...

    All this talk about the poor quality of libraries out there got me inspired to do a small example using the sounds that I have.
    The example is from Hindemith\'s Symphonic Metamorpohes 1st mvt.
    The instruments used are from AO, X Sample, and Ultimate Percussion.
    The demo can be found here on the user demos link.

    I did this in less than an hour so keep that in mind! : )

    DS Soundware

  2. #2

    Re: good samples/bad samples...you be the judge...

    Can\'t find the file, Donnie... What is it called?

  3. #3

    Re: good samples/bad samples...you be the judge...

    hmm...I don\'t guess it\'s up yet. Also I just uploaded another one for you guys. This one is Dvorak\'s Karnival Overture. One of my favorite tamb. exerpts! : )

    They should be up soon....


  4. #4

    Re: good samples/bad samples...you be the judge...

    Both files are now up in the user demo Area.
    sounds great.

    PaPa Chalk

    [This message has been edited by PaPa Chalk (edited 08-30-2000).]

  5. #5

    Re: good samples/bad samples...you be the judge...


    thank you for this contribution of Hindemith.

    To be really honest: As an orchestral performance it sounds very strange and far from reality. Why ?

    To start with percussion I think this is a strong point of the demo. Convincing, but sometimes mixed too much into the foreground (snare drums!)(of course you want to demo you sounds).

    The woodwind is often covered by the rest so difficult to judge. But there are some flute parts that sound very synthetic.

    The brass is not bad. However compared to a original recording it lacks volume (I mean volume, not loudness).

    Worst of all is the strings. They lack everything: Volume, warmth, elegance and melodic expression.
    As they are not legato there is no phrasing-expression.

    For me it is the strings that hold the piece together, because the other instruments more or less add trills and effects to it. As the strings \"pump\", the whole performance pumps and is breaking into pieces.

    For one hour of work it is impressive, for an orchestral performance it is not.

    It shows us that there is still a long, long way to go. And it is the sample producers who determine how long it will take.

    With Gigastudio the sampler-producers already have done a big step forward. Their next challenge will be to add some interpretation algorithms to finally solve this phrasing/legato problem, which the percussionists do not have.


  6. #6

    Re: good samples/bad samples...you be the judge...


    I wonder if you could add one more column to the user demo page which would show the date the file was posted.

    It would really help us to know what\'s been added since our last visit.


  7. #7

    Re: good samples/bad samples...you be the judge...

    It\'s not just the quality of the samples, it\'s also a matter of being able to use them. The following is a \"must read\" article about using orchestral samples\"


  8. #8

    Re: good samples/bad samples...you be the judge...


    I read the article: This guy basically says that all the libraries are good and if you complain about them, it is only because you are a bad orchestrator.

    Statements like this are the end of all discussion and - worse than that - they are the end of being open to argumentation. And that is: The end of being ready to learn from other people´s point of view.

    I can proof that his assumption is wrong: Go to Nemesys song demos and look for an MP3 that is called like \"Bruckner-Like\".
    That was produced by somenbody who really knows how to write music.

    But when you hear the first appearence of the brass, you can hear that it is quite (if not very) bad.

    You do not have to be a composer to hear bad samples, just a good listener. It is as simple as that.

    Anyway, as you say, you need to be experienced in dealing with music (composition) AND samples to make the result sound better. But that is a truth that has nothing to do with the quality of libraries as this guy tries to tell us.


  9. #9

    Re: good samples/bad samples...you be the judge...

    The point that I thought the article was trying to get across is that you can\'t play the orchestral samples like the orchestral patches from keyboards. You have to use proper orchestration techniques (horizontal lines) and not a block chord style approach (vertical lines).

    A \"strings\" patch from a Roland or Kurzweil may sound pretty good, when played in block chords, but the orchestral samples (Vitous, Advanced Orch. etc) won\'t. You have to use the proper playing technique.

    I suggested this as \"must read\" because I\'m sure that this is a basic point that SOME folk are missing.

    They spend a fortune on Vitous (or whatever), play it like a string patch from a synth, and then complain about the results they get.

    My point (and the point of the article, IMHO) was that they should NOT play it like a string patch on a synth, but using proper counterpoint, individual lines for each part, and then see what they think of the samples.


  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Burbank, CA. US of Mexico

    Re: good samples/bad samples...you be the judge...

    Agreed. Another good article on this subject is the one on the soniccontrol site by Ashley Witt.

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