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Topic: Everyone who thinks Vitous and Siedlacek libr. are best for orch., listen to this!!!

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  1. #1

    Everyone who thinks Vitous and Siedlacek libr. are best for orch., listen to this!!!

    I\'d like to start a discussion about best libraries/synths for orchestral music. It seems almost everyone at this forum thinks Vitous, Siedlaczek or Ultimate strings are the best libraries ever for making orchestral music; Symphony of Voices best for choir sounds... But...
    Sooner I though the same, but then for some time I was interested in listening many computer and video games music, and it definitively opens my eyes. There are so many libraries and synth sounds which sound so so much better than what\'s on standard market (Vitous, Siedlczek, SOV, etc). - but no-one seems to know which libraries are that exactly. Nor I. Maybe someone will know them and help me to find what libraries or synths are that, by the sound.
    And if no-one would, never mind then, at least everyone can hear what real quality synth/samle library orchestral sounds are.
    I would appreciate any comments and opinions on quality of sounds of mp3 sample linked below. It\'s from a PC game soundtrack from 1995 (!!so old) and all the sounds are pure synth (not real instruments, but only synth or sample libraries sounds).
    The appeared instruments are: Marcato string section, French horns, Brass section, Choir, Timpani, Orchestral snare, solo Cello (for a while), orch. Bass drum, Orch. hit, Gongs
    The mp3 file is:

    gm1.mp3




    [This message has been edited by Dis (edited 08-24-2000).]

  2. #2

    Re: Everyone who thinks Vitous and Siedlacek libr. are best for orch., listen to this!!!

    Thanks for posting the game mp3 Dis!

    I\'m so glad I have finally had a chance to listen to some of these samples.

    OK. The file you posted has sounds which you could comfortably cover using the Roland sampler library. Roland have similar quality Marcato strings, choirs, french horns (better actually), snare, gong, tymps and brass.

    However, the Roland orchestral bass drums are not as chest thumping as your mp3\'s one - their a little \'flaccid\' in comparison.
    Also the pizzicato viloins on the mp3 track are more - how you say? - \'delicate\' than the Roland ones. They seem to be less clunky and have a tad more detail, if you know what I mean.

    Apart from that I\'m confident you could reproduce that track almost identically (maybe better in the area of choir and tymps) using the Roland library. When I say Roland - I mean the original series of CD roms that they marketed themselves, immediately after releasing the 770 sampler. I think Eric Persing (Distorted Reality, SOV etc.,) was probably involved in producing them.

    Given that CDXtract and Rubber Chicken Systems Translator now support Roland > Giga conversion, maybe you should check their stuff out.

    This raises another point. How many of us have bothered to audition libraries which are not available for the sampler we are using?
    Personally, I haven\'t used the Emu library since the EII, and I\'d be very interested to see what exclusively Emu libraries sound like.

    I\'d really like to hear any other wavs or mp3s of game tracks which have exceptional quality sounds. Please post URLs here if you can.

    Thanks again Dis

  3. #3

    Re: Everyone who thinks Vitous and Siedlacek libr. are best for orch., listen to this!!!

    For percussion you could check out our library \"Ultimate Orchestral Percussion\". It has been received very well so far and has by far the most variety of percussion instruments.

    You can hear demos at the user demo section here or at our website.
    http://www.dssoundware.com

    Sincerely,

    Donnie Christian
    DS Soundware

  4. #4

    Re: Everyone who thinks Vitous and Siedlacek libr. are best for orch., listen to this!!!

    Guys,
    Don\'t get me wrong. I\'m not saying that the Roland library is the final answer - far from it. Simply that to achieve the particular sound on Dis\' mp3, the 770 library would have been enough.

    Donnie\'s percussion sounds amazing and I\'ll be getting it as soon as my bank account recovers from its PC apocalypse. I\'m looking forward to Kirk Hunter\'s string, QL Brass and the Xsample range - whose woods and harp blew me away.

    The whole reason I bought the Gst is that I need to go further than the Roland library in terms of quality and options. I also want to be able to load much more of the arrangement. (Trying to fit an orchestra of 16 bit stereo samples onto 16mb of ram is hellishly frustrating)

  5. #5

    Re: Everyone who thinks Vitous and Siedlacek libr. are best for orch., listen to this!!!

    Dis,

    I\'ve kept up and read some of the threads you posted on this messageboard about sample libraries and synths. As I read some of your topics I kept thinking that maybe you were describing some ultra-sophisticated sample set that was available only to high-profile film and multimedia composers. I know of several that I\'ve come across.
    Well, I just listened to your short mp3 clip and all I can say is, Whoa! I had a sudden and nasty attack of deja vu. Anyone who has ever worked with Roland\'s very old but well respected line of JV/XP synth modules will easily recognize the origins of most of the sounds on that clip. Roland released an Orchestral expansion board several years ago (an eternity in this high-tech world) for the JV/XP modules. The sounds were not bad at that time, specially since everything was squeezed into a total of 16mb of sample space. The expansion board was convienent and not too expensive.
    Now, to compare something like this to a Gigasampler/Gigastudio system is like comparing a 1984 toyota with a 2000 Audi Q6. It doesn\'t even warrant a discussion but that\'s just me. The JV1080 w/ the Orch expansion was a very popular machine for video game composers around the same time this piece you put up was composed. The default patches on this expansion card were programmed to barely resemble and reflect the complexities of a real orchestra. I remember trying to sort out numerous weird ensemble patches. At times I would come across a patch marked \'Warm Violin\' which in reality used a combination of violin and viola waveforms.. a total mess but it was a far less expensive solution than a Kurzweil 2K for money-strapped video game composers.

    Regrads,
    Gulliver.

    (P.S. Even the choir in that piece was the halariously mediocre one supplied with the Roland Orchestral expansion board, LOL! - Actually, ironically, Roland did release eventually a Voice card that featured watered down samples from none other than the \'Symphony of Voices\' library)

  6. #6

    Re: Everyone who thinks Vitous and Siedlacek libr. are best for orch., listen to this!!!

    I would have to agree with Gulliver .
    Giga sampler /giga studio has the capability and is currently producing much more realistic sounds than the hardware samplers.
    But I would have to admit among the hardware samplers and tone modules the rolands had the best sounds .
    Like on the JV-1080, the sounds are very pleasing to the ear because the Roland people put a lot more time and effort layering ,filtering and stereo imaging ambiance into there libraries than Akai,Emu etc.
    Although they sound nice for synthetic ,futurestic ,etc sounds they are not as realistic as some off the better giga sounds.

    In reponding to Chadwicks question about the quality of Emu sounds .
    I used to have the Emu E-64 before giga studio and believe me ,if you haven\'t heard Emu sounds, your not missing anything .
    I used to have the whole library and there is very little velocity switching. And some of the sounds like the famous prodeus strings which are also avalible in the cd rom library have been recorded at a very low sampling rate [22K] because when they were originally created the current sampler was the E-3 and could only expanded to 8 megs ,so they were trying to conserve memory.
    Those strings sound like finger nails on a chaulk board to me ,very harsh and grainy.


  7. #7

    Re: Everyone who thinks Vitous and Siedlacek libr. are best for orch., listen to this!!!

    Dis,
    I concur with Gulliver. I own the JV 1080 with both Orchestral and Orchestral II expansion boards and the file you posted sounds very familar indeed. I love the sounds from my JV1080 but after I got GSt and AO, I never went back to my Roland again for orchestal sounds - personal preference perhaps...

    [This message has been edited by Cheez (edited 08-25-2000).]

  8. #8

    Re: Everyone who thinks Vitous and Siedlacek libr. are best for orch., listen to this!!!

    Thanks for replies.
    The sample I posted hasn\'t sounds from Orchestral 1 at all! I\'ve also owned JV-1080, w. orchestral and vocal exp. cards for some time, and I\'m 150% sure those sounds aren\'t from JV! Yes some of the sounds are maybe a bit resembling, but definitely they\'re not from orch. exp. board. The programming and samples of the mp3 sounds has far much more details, the sounds are pure, clear and balanced unlike on JV/XP orch. card. I belive some similar quality sounds can be found on those Roland orchestral sample disks as Chadwick said.
    Chadwick: I will make further uploading mp3s from games music to a site and then link URLs here, there are also others. I will post further file(s) soon..

  9. #9

    Re: Everyone who thinks Vitous and Siedlacek libr. are best for orch., listen to this!!!

    Thanks for replies. The sample I posted hasn\'t sounds from Orchestral 1 at all! I\'ve also owned JV-1080, w. orchestral and vocal exp. cards for some time, and I\'m 150% sure those sounds aren\'t from JV! Yes some of
    the sounds are maybe a bit resembling, but definitely they\'re not from orch. exp. board.


    Dis,

    I don\'t know if I accessed the wrong mp3 file but what I heard was %151 Orchestral I. Not only that but the sounds seem to be the original default patches. I instantly recognized the snares, the brass (\'Mcarthur Brass\' patch), marcato basses, etc..
    With a little work on a patch editor you can make the board sound better but the change is nothing dramatic.

    Regards,
    Gulliver.

  10. #10

    Re: Everyone who thinks Vitous and Siedlacek libr. are best for orch., listen to this!!!

    Thanks for replies. The sample I posted hasn\'t sounds from Orchestral 1 at all! I\'ve also owned JV-1080, w. orchestral and vocal exp. cards for some time, and I\'m 150% sure those sounds aren\'t from JV! Yes some of
    the sounds are maybe a bit resembling, but definitely they\'re not from orch. exp. board.


    Dis,

    I don\'t know if I accessed the wrong mp3 file but what I heard was %151 Orchestral I. Not only that but the sounds seem to be the original default patches. I instantly recognized the snares, the brass (\'Mcarthur Brass\' patch), marcato basses, etc..
    With a little work on a patch editor you can make the board sound better but the change is nothing dramatic.

    Regards,
    Gulliver.

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