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Topic: Censorship--I thought this was over in this group, but I guess not.

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Censorship--I thought this was over in this group, but I guess not.

    I am distressed at the tendency of this forum\'s moderators to close off threads as they see fit. There seems to be a constant problem with this among this site\'s administrators, and it reflects poorly on Nemesys.

    I thought the blanking out of certain website names several months ago was childish and silly, and I called Nemesys to let them know about it. That practice seems to have stopped, but now the thread concerning the unfortunate situation with Jinjee samples was also closed, presumably because it was off topic?

    What could be more ON-topic than the drama that played out in that thread, complete with human emotion and a complex situation which unfolded as light was shined upon it?

    If this behavior continues, I encourage everyone to ask Nemesys to find another sponsor with a more restrained and even hand, or to sponsor its own group. Censorship is an ugly thing and certainly musicians should be the first to stand up for the free and open exchange of ideas.

    What I would have ADDED to that thread, had it been left open for comment, is this: I am very impressed by the BiggaGiggas team. They defended a friend who had given them his word. When that trust was ultimately proven false, they promptly did the right thing. At ProRec.com we received an urgent notice asking us not to publicize the libraries, explaining the situation, and expressing sincere apologies for the incident. I assume that Mr. Kandler has also received this apology, and hopefully he will be forgiving and understanding of the situation. I believe that Mr. Thomas and Larsson are deeply disappointed, and that they were hurt personally and financially by the ordeal. Hopefully all will be well.

    Please, do not censor this group. Ideas should not be stifled, lest the truths they contain or trigger be stifled along with them. The group will police itself quite well, if allowed to have its own life. Of course, abuse is another thing altogether, but I don\'t see any abuse in any of the cases of censorship here, just ideas being judged and dismissed when the administrators don\'t like them. That is quite unacceptable.

    Sincerely,

    Bruce A. Richardson
    Senior Editor, ProRec.com

  2. #2

    Re: Censorship--I thought this was over in this group, but I guess not.

    I must say that I totally agree with the above.

  3. #3

    Re: Censorship--I thought this was over in this group, but I guess not.

    Well said Bruce!! I couldn\'t have said it better myself.

    Actually, I\'ve seen a lot of censorship go on in this forum since the beginning. Posted messages will \"magically\" disappear from the forum when someone voices an opinion that\'s contrary to the administrator\'s viewpoint. I\'ve wished several times that Nemesys would create their own forum from their web site, but I guess it\'s easier for them if a 2nd party maintains it.

    But again, thanks for saying the words so perfectly!!

    -Boomer

  4. #4

    Re: Censorship--I thought this was over in this group, but I guess not.

    Hi All
    I understand kicking someone off [which is a form of sensorship ] if they are being beligerant and creating grief and distress for other members].
    But to stop a thread which is relavent and related to gigasampler/gigastudio[they claim were getting off the subject?].
    I found that thread very relavent to gigasampler/gigastudio.
    I work very hard for my money ,like Im sure alot of you do .
    And I like to be educated about the gigasampler library\'s that I purchase .
    A informed consumer is a good thing .

    There is also a alternative giga sampler user form that I frequent quite often .
    They do not sensor at all.
    The address is soniccontrol.com

  5. #5

    Re: Censorship--I thought this was over in this group, but I guess not.

    Hey everyone check out ProRec.com I go there quite often it\'s a great webzine.

    Hello Bruce, thank you for your comments. I think you may have taken our actions the wrong way. First of all, we saw this thread from day one and brought this (issue/thread) in question to the attention of Worra. You may not know that Worra has just come off a serious injury, which explains his absence for awhile from this forum. If you noticed this string was going for quite sometime (apporx 4 days) before he responded. No posts were placed on his site to bring the matter to his attention. So, we decided to email him directly.

    He was not aware of what was going on and then as you say the \"drama\" unfolded right before all our eyes. Initially the string was very informative bringing relative issues to light, then... things started to get tense, some people were even admant that it should have been private. It is unfortunate that this situation has happened. We let this thread go on for quite sometime so everyone could be informed. The thread can still be searched .
    With regards to your comments about abuse, we did not arbitrarily close the thread in question. As stated in our rules we are trying to keep the forum \"discussion free of bickering. We are here to help each other get the best use out of Nemesys GigaSampler/Studio.\" this is a quote taken directly from the rules you agreed to when you registered.

    Please don\'t forget, although everyone is entitled to their own opinions we still face legal issues when running a forum like this.

    From time to time sample cd manufactures do contact us about illegal postings and other legal issues. In which we are obligated to act upon. It is also in our best interest to avoid liable situations.

    We are not for or against anyone, it is for this reason we try to stick with the forum guide lines we set out with.
    As with all things we don\'t expect everyone to agree. However as Moderators of this forum we have to make judgement calls.

    To date there still has not been one post directly on Worra\'s site. Seems like no one wants to talk or bring the issue to him directly there. This is why we
    invited everyone involved to talk directly with each other or Worra at his site. Had we not notified Worra about this he still might not have known.


    The (Jinjee\'s Horns) thread which you were referring to was unfortunate and indeed very interesting. It makes for great drama but lets use the forum for what it is intended for, to give and receive help with gigasampler/giga studio.

    Lets get back to Gigasampling.

    Don\'t forget to look at best service statement to illegal copies of AO sounds this post by Klaus Kandler Ceo at <A HREF=\"http://www.bestservice.de/indexe.asp?uid=817547a24p226p90p134\" TARGET=_blank>
    Best Service </A>

    http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/Forum3/HTML/000364.html

    Hope you understand our position


    PaPa Chalk & Desound



    [This message has been edited by PaPa Chalk (edited 07-28-2000).]

  6. #6
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Censorship--I thought this was over in this group, but I guess not.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PaPa Chalk:
    The (Jinjee\'s Horns) thread which you were referring to was unfortunate and indeed very interesting. It makes for great drama but lets use the forum for what it is intended for, to give and receive help with gigasampler/giga studio.

    Lets get back to Gigasampling.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hello PC,

    I appreciate your response, and I hope my post was not offensive or hurtful to you. I must admit an emotional gut reaction, which was probably not a place to be when typing a response. I am familiar with the hard work that goes into maintaining a website, and am appreciative of the time you\'ve invested.

    I quoted the statement above, because I guess that\'s really where the issue lies for me. I do not see that any of the content in the thread in question is off-topic. If discussion is restricted to what is purely \"about\" giga-sampling--even loosely--then much valuable information can be lost...even if it\'s simply information about what kind of people are in the community here and how they react to stressful situations.

    That information in itself is valuable to consumers who are deciding where to invest their hard-earned money. It could be that part of a buyers decision on a particular library will be about the person supplying the product. I know that I personally feel that way. I invest money or time in the products and people that I feel have the best \"karma\" for lack of a better word. We saw many personalities laid bare in that thread, and to me personally it was of great interest and value.

    I\'m glad you mentioned Mr. Kandler\'s reply, because I thought it was very thoughtful, and very gracious towards everyone involved. I have communicated with him before, when ProRec did its first series of giga-content reviews, and he was extremely gracious and helpful then. I have a great deal of respect for his evenhandedness in this difficult situation. He could have been a real hard-*** , and instead chose to state his case eloquently and without malice towards Per and John.

    I\'d invite you to check out Cakewalk\'s audio newsgroup as an example of a very strong online community, if you have not done so. Cakewalk has always refused to remove or close threads, even at the request of the original posters. As uncomfortable as some threads may be to them, their faith has paid off, and the community really does a very fine job of keeping itself on topic. And hidden in even the most seemingly senseless threads are shiny nuggets of knowledge which would have been lost if they had chosen to control the group more tightly.

    It\'s part of letting a community develop. Sometimes you must bear a bit of pain, and watch an internet group flounder just a bit. The payoff is that it eventually will find its own legs and begin to function as a fully living organism. And once a group begins to monitor its own s/n ratio, you\'ll find that you must do very little to guide it.

    That level of investment by the group itself builds loyalty, which pays off in a greater sense of community.

    I guess my advice or comment would be this: Perhaps just a little less guidance from the moderators would actually strengthen the community, and give its members a higher sense of ownership. That in turn, builds responsibility and loyalty within the user group. Without any challenges to face, a group doesn\'t build much strength and cohesion.

    I completely agree that matters of abuse or property infringement are a different subject altogether and that you are clearly in the right place to protect yourself from legal problems.

    Thanks again for all your work to provide a place for Giga-users to come together and discuss issues. I don\'t get to participate here in very significant volume, because I\'m frankly way behind on some ProRec stuff. But I enjoy the mix of people very much and hope that this group continues to grow and mature.

    Best regards,

    Bruce

    PS...there\'s a GigaStudio review coming, along with a review of most of the major Giga-content libraries, on ProRec. I will be sure to plug this group for you, and remind users that it is a great resource for communicating with Nemesys, sound developers, and the community at large.


  7. #7

    Re: Censorship--I thought this was over in this group, but I guess not.

    Bruce,

    I agree with the radical \'no interference\' when user communities are concerned. However going back to business...when, oh when, is the GS article due.

    thx
    elle

  8. #8

    Re: Censorship--I thought this was over in this group, but I guess not.

    Bruce,

    Thanks for your comments - I agree 100%. And it\'s not just sample library purchasers who get valuable information from this board. My initial decision to purchase GigaSampler was helped along by the existence of this board - in fact, it wouldn\'t be an exaggeration to say it was crucial to my decision. I did see the heavy-handed moderation here, and that was a definite negative for me in the decision whether or not to buy GS. But I felt confident that this user community would be strong enough to surmount that problem, one way or another.

  9. #9

    Re: Censorship--I thought this was over in this group, but I guess not.

    Any \"officially sanctioned\" newsgroup/forum runs the risk of being biased, and presenting a conflict of interest.

    It only takes one incidence of censorship to see where a forum\'s moderators stand.

    The Cakewalk ng is a valuable exception.

  10. #10

    Re: Censorship--I thought this was over in this group, but I guess not.

    Papa
    I hope Worra is recovering well from his injury.

    Bruce
    Can you tell me the internet address for that cakewalk users group? thanks , Ken

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