At approximately 5a.m. Pacific time of 07/24/00 Bigga Giggas received a formal
admission from Jinjee that not all wavs contained in his Horns cd were
originally recorded by him. He states that he received some wavs from an
Internet acquaintance who insisted that the wavs were in fact, his creation
and gave Jinjee permission to edit etc as he saw fit.
From the moment of this admission, our course has been
painful, but clear. We have been spending the day removing the product from
our Distributors\' active sales lists.
Like yourself, we have been misled by Jinjee\'s previous
affadavit to the effect that all wavs were his copywritable materials. Since
we can no longer be absolutely certain of anything regarding these creations
we have formally removed both Jinjee\'s Strings and Jinjee\'s Horns from the
market effective immediately. We will never allow any CDs to be sold if we
are not convinced of both their quality and their authentic origins.
This has already become one of the saddest days of my
life, as we have been genuinely friends with Jinjee and feel a great personal
loss at his admission.
John and I remain committed to creating an honest sample cd
for a fair price. We sincerely hope that you will judge us
by our reaction to this unfortunate incident and by the content of the other
Bigga Giggas cds not affected by this event.
John Thomas Bigga Giggas U.S.A.
Per Larsson <worra> Bigga Giggas Europe
This is a very sad thing for me as well (partcularly since I just spent good money on something I already owned).
I\'ve been examining the samples on the two Jinjee CD\'s along side the samples from AO and I\'m afraid that Bigga Giggas continues to be disengenuous: \"... not all wavs contained in his Horns CD were originally recorded by him [Jinjee].\"
The evidence clearly shows that not *any* of the wavs in his Horns CD were recorded by Jinjee. In fact, the case here is that Jinjee, whoever he is, spent a couple of hours copying the AO wavs and then either deceived Bigga Giggas or worked in concert with them to make a quick buck. Sixty bucks for a $1 CDr is a pretty good return on investment.
\"Since we can no longer be absolutely certain of anything regarding these creations we have formally removed both Jinjee\'s Strings and Jinjee\'s Horns from the market effective immediately.\"
I\'m sorry, but this really calls into question the entire Bigga Giggas library. This action is not nearly adequate for the situation. Bigga Giggas should suspend all sales activities until at such time they can show that the remainder of their products are not in violation of anyone else\'s rights. To avoid this painful, but necessary step puts the entire Bigga Giggas user community, past, present, and future at risk. Personally, I would never want to risk using any of these samples from this unrealiable source unless I knew for sure they were legitimate. To do so would mean that I could be culpable, particularly since I\'m now clearly aware the current situation.
\"We will never allow any CDs to be sold if we are not convinced of both their quality and their authentic origins.\"
As I said, it is no longer Bigga Giggas that needs to be convinced of this authenticity. It is the user community. I urge Bigga Giggas to take immediate steps in this direction.
\"We have been spending the day removing the product from our Distributors\' active sales lists.\"
This is the part of the statement that I have the most trouble with. This is a woefully inadequate reaction. Not only should Bigga Giggas suspend *all* sales activity, they should immediately issue refund checks to each and every purchaser of the Jinjee products, and they should make every possible effort to inform their community of users about it. So far, not a single word has been spoken by them about the real victims in all of this: the users.
We may never know if the John Thomas or Per Larsson were directly involved in this deception, but their continued evasiveness on these issues does not help their case.
\"We sincerely hope that you will judge us by our reaction to this unfortunate incident...\"
\"...and by the content of the other Bigga Giggas cds not affected by this event.\"
But you see, as I have said, *all* other Bigga Giggas products are effected by this event.
If everything Worra has said in this post is true, then I really feel for him and his partner. But that does not mitigate their obligation to the user community to ensure that their stolen assets are restored as well.
I just received an email from Bigga Giggas stating that they would refund the purchase price of Jinjee\'s Horns and Jinjee\'s Strings if I send the CD\'s back to them. This is definitely a step in the right direction.
It still leaves me feeling very cold about the other sample libraries they sell. It\'s still very sad too, because I really appreciate the purported purpose of Bigga Giggas: to provide a quality product at a low price. But until their CD\'s have been out at least a year or two, I can\'t contemplate putting myself in the position of using pirated work.
Could someone explain the legal issues involved here? I\'m no copyright lawyer (thank heavens!), so I have no idea what the law says about cases like this. If I use a sample library, and it comes out *later* that the samples I used were bootleg, am I in trouble? What if *some* of the samples were known to be bootleg, and I use *other* samples from the same library? Am I putting myself in legal danger?
I\'m in a quandary as to what to do with my Jinjee Strings CD. I don\'t know of anything on that CD that came from AO (doesn\'t prove that nothing on the CD came from AO, of course; I might have just missed it). And, darn, I *like* some of the Jinjee sounds better than AO! I\'m using them in a project right now. At the moment I have no evidence that the samples I\'m using aren\'t legal; I only know that *some* samples on another CD produced by the same people aren\'t legal. So do I really have to toss all the Jinjee stuff in order to be sure I\'m legally covered? The law can\'t require me to check out every string library ever produced to see if it matches Jinjee\'s before I can use those sounds. And, for that matter, you can never be *sure* you\'re using \"legally pure\" sounds unless you watch whole recording-editing-mastering process yourself.
Yes, I know that the legally safest thing to do is to remove all the Jinjee sounds from my current project and use something else. I really would hate to do that, because as I said I *like* the Jinjee sounds and I think my project would suffer a little if I substituted AO.
Arrgh, I\'m probably going to have to remove the Jinjee sounds though, if only for my own peace of mind. Comments, anyone?
From your recent post (posted 07-27-2000 08:35 PM), it is good to see that Bigga Giggas have offered to refund the purchase price in return for the Jinjee CD-ROMs.
After all the sad events that have happened regarding the Jinjee CD-ROMs, my guess is that if Worra/Per has any reason at all to suspect illegal samples on the other Bigga Giggas CD-ROMs, he would have already withdrawn them from sale & promotion also.
I hope Klaus Kandler/Best Service will not be too hard on Per & John. Perhaps for those users of the Jingee CD-ROMs who explicitly do not want a refund, the purchase price received by Bigga Giggas could be passed on by Bigga Giggas to the producers of AO as a way to provide for a legal licence to use the AO samples on the Jinjee CD-ROMs. This is only a suggestion, as I am not an expert in these matters, and I suppose it may depend on many factors such as on the amount of AO material contained on the Jinjee CD-ROMs.
Anyway, if possible, I really hope all gets sorted out to the mutual satisfaction of the producers of AO, the users of the Jinjee CD-ROMs, and Per & John.
I bought the strings & horns CD from Bigga Gigga, and I\'d like a refund. But, I don\'t know if I should request one. I\'m affraid of sending the CDs back and not getting a refund from him/them. And they were charged on my Master Card. I wonder if they could credit my credit card. Anybody have the Bigga Gigga email address?
I personally would like to see an apology from John Thomas to this users group, for the way he responded to the original accusations in the \"Jinjee\'s Horns = Adv Ochestra\" thread, now closed
Instead of remaining rational and promising users an explanation, he acted in an incredibly defensive and confrontational matter. And that does indeed call into question the integrity of not only Jinjee but all of Bigga Giggas.
[This message has been edited by Chris Beck (edited 07-29-2000).]