since sales at Marcati ignore my e-mail I´d like to ask around here.
I am looking for warm natural strings, legato layable.
All I have heard so far is brilliant and clear, well suitable for pop or film music.
But if you want to reproduce a soft and warm, or a sad or an athmospheric natural sound like in so many classical scores, none of the libraries I have heard come even close to that.
For example I have not found a single \"con sordino\" that simply sounds like a \"con sordino\": Dark, \"far\", somewhat sad.
I do not know Miroslav strings. If somebody could respond to that and also tell me, how long the samples are usually in seconds, if they are looped and how many samples are usually mapped to one ocatve.
(I am REALLY disappointed about Marcati being no way interested in my E-Mail though asking for enormous amounts of money for their products).
I have read all the posts here concerning the Virtuoso Strings. Though there were some positive aspects, overall they appear not to be the ultimate and - even worse - they do not convert with the S-Converter.
Any more statements about \"Miroslav warm strings\" as asked for in my first post ?
Hello Horst. which strings are you talking about? Miroslav strings are now in gig format no need to use the sconvert for akai version. If you have recently purchased miroslav strings in akai format i am sure you can exchange them for the gig format. The gig format is excellent in comparison.
as stated in my original request I do not own any Miroslav strings, but just wanted to know what owners think about them. I am looking for something warm, sad, rich and natural.
I know they are available in GS Format.
(Also the violins-only disk ???)
The question is if the samples are the same. If they are, I really do not care for the format, because rebuilding instruments is mostly necessary for personal needs and fine tuning - especially strings!
If Marcati use the old samples and just built GS-instruments the question really is, how they can charge so much money, if there are now libraries around where every note has been sampled like with XSample.
Time for new thinking in the Gigasampler-Ages!
Anyway, classical composers, Marcati-owners, tell me the truth and your experience about these strings.
Hi Horst. I\'ve been lucky enough to be able to work with the Miroslav Vitous library a while, (gotten to know it) and I think its a very good library. Certainly 10 times better than advanced orchestra. The attacks are much better. I also like the playing style in which the instruments were recorded. There are however alot of gaps to fill for other samplelibrary developers. Especially a good selection of usable articulations and decent forte/fortissimo samples (which all orchestral libraries i\'ve tested lacks. Then again I like forte to be LOUD
Papa Chalk: Holst wasn\'t talking about Miroslav (About the bad convertion with s-convert). There\'s a relatively new string library called Kirk Hunters Virtouso Strings (or something similar). It\'s probably too new for anyone to have any deep experience with it, but from what i\'ve heard about it and listening to demos I\'d say its certainly a worthy alternative to miroslav vitous. Cheaper too.
I mailed those miroslav guys, and I got a reply. I was asking if their gigasampler version would contain any new samples in it (which it didn\'t). I guess you asked them the same question (and probably 100 other people have asked that,so my guess is they\'re getting tired of hearing that
As for the price of the gigasampler version of the miroslav vitous library I think it\'s a complete ripoff. And don\'t give me that \"It costs to hire an orchestra and a sound engineer for such a large project!\". Surely he must have earned back that since the first Akai version appeared ages ago. I don\'t think it would cost THAT much to hire a relatively unknown orchestra (which he doesn\'t even state in the booklet) for a couple of weeks. And it\'s not like the programming of the library is anything worth cheering for. He could at least have given us some unused samplebits (surely there has to be some) from his recording sessions (on the gigasampler version that is). But no. Nothing. Just the same old samples, which was good when it first came out, but certainly not worth its cash in year 2000!
Anyway back to you holst.
Miroslav vitous is a great library, especially the strings and the woodwinds and solo instruments. They are MUCH better and warmer than the ones in advanced orchestra. The ensemble instruments also benefit from a more distant placement of mics (so you wont get that up-in-your-face sound that you get with AO.) But then there\'s the price. If you have no problem affording it, get it. If you have just a little bit of a problem affording it, stay away from it, and wait. Surely there must be a good alternative in the production!!
[This message has been edited by Thomas_J (edited 04-28-2000).]
I\'ve been using the AO and Vitous libraries for quite a while now, and also the newer Kirk Hunter. The following conversation pertains to the string ensembles.
In both libraries there are certain patches which stand out as being excellent. But lots of times, I\'ll come across a patch that, by just playing it straight with a little reverb, doesn\'t sound so great. But then, placed in the right setting of instruments and orchestration, this so-so patch suddenly becomes absolutely realistic.
This seems to happen a lot with string ensembles. The Vitous strings are by far the \'warmest\' (less bite) of the three (Advanced Orch., Vitous, Kirk Hunter). But their attacks are rather slow. The Kirk Hunter, to me, displays what I was just talking about. By themselves they tend to sound a little stringent in comparison to the Vitous. But you put them in an orchestral mix (and what is great is to add the Vitous strings as the second or first violins) and suddenly they really sound fantastic. The one Kirk Hunter patch that really stands out on it\'s own as well is a duet violin patch. Boy, that one is beautiful and can be used quite alone, or layered with the Vitous to create a beautiful string ensemble with heavy-ish vibrato. Another thing that the Kirk Hunter library has are good attacks. They sort of play right along with your playing technique. I use the e-mu versions. I\'ve used them on 4 projects now.
I like to have access to all the libraries (funds permitting) because that way you can really get a more real sound.
The Vitous strings are great for more gentle, expansive scoring at medium dynamics. They seem to have a more noble sound --like in R. Vaughan Williams recordings. They sort of float nicely and beautifully.
The Kirk Hunter strings are great where you want some \'oomph\' to your string lines --for dramatic leads and emotional playing. And soaring film style.
AO I don\'t use too much for strings anymore. Not because they aren\'t good (again, they are especially good in a mix) but because it\'s getting to the point where I need to narrow my options to save time. I use AO for other things like brass and percussion.
Sorry to drone on, but honestly, I\'m really glad that I bought the Vitous and then also the Kirk Hunter. Together they are a good combination. Sometime soon, if I\'ll ever put up a web page, I\'ll post some of the pieces I\'ve done with the three libraries.
My advice to people trying to decide on a string library is:
If you can only get one, get the Vitous, as it is probably more versatile in the long run.
Then add the Kirk Hunter later, unless a newer better library comes along.
your statements have been the most profund and open I´ve read in this area. You all seem to have a good idea and excellent knowledge about how strings should sound.
I was delighted to read the name R.V. Williams in your post. If you know his 5th symphony - which for me is the most beautiful symphony ever written - then you are getting a good idea of the sort of string sound I am looking for:
e.g. the soft cantabile legato-violins that open the theme after the horn chords at the very beginning of the first movement - what violin samples what do that best ?
or: what samples would you use to play the distant and tender pp-chords (they are scored \"con sordino\") at the beginning of the Romanza (3rd movement) before the english horn comes in ?
or: a very, very difficult one in terms of attack and legato-play is the first bars of the scherzo - which one would you choose ?
I´d be glad to hear some comments on that.
Yes, yes, the 5th symphony is one of my favorites, too. It\'s just absolutely gorgeous. And I even keep a recording in my CaseLogic CD holder in case of emergencies when I\'m on the road. Or in this case to review the scherzo and romanza movements. I have the Leonard Slatkin RCA Victor recording, so these comments pertain to that, and also, I\'m really talking about the violins here. I could go into some advantages and drawbacks of the other strings, but I would have to pull up a lot of the old patches from the disks -I\'ve modified quite a few and those are what I\'ve become used to. So I\'ll skip that and talk mainly about the Violins.
First off, if these are the types of string sounds your after, I think that between the three libraries, Vitous is the only one that will come close. The Kirk Hunter has too much presence and is too evident to be this far away sounding. So, among the Vitous Violin patches, I would use:
For the Preludio, there is a beautiful 11 violins patch (11VS-Soft #). It\'s the slowest to respond; and maybe a little too slow. If it were too slow to get good attacks, you could try the 11VS-EXP2F, which is another pastoral sounding patch. There are a couple more options that I can\'t think of, but the 24 violins patch might be good, too. Also, if I were not getting enough attack with any of these, I would mix a second patch in which had more attack --either from Vitous or maybe a con sordino from Advanced Orchestra. I really can\'t remember what that con sordino sounds like in AO. But you\'d be amazed at the different timbre you can get by applying sometimes very unlikely sounding patches to the same line. I always have to experiment each time.
As for the Romanza, it would be difficult to get anything this soft, but the first patch I mentioned above, perhaps filtered, and add some EQ and it could come close. Also, I don\'t have the score here in front of me, but is the organ playing softly with the strings? And also, some horn. All of this could help soften the strings and make them more organ-like tones.
In the Scherzo, you are very right. This would be the hardest to do. I\'m not sure which patch I would use. I\'d have to experiment. Again, the other strings playing at the same time help to blur the edges of the violins, so to speak.
Anyway, hope this helps. One thing I sometimes do is to take something like the 5th symphony and try and emulate the recording I have of it with my equipment. I haven\'t done that in a while, but it is really good practice at making me hear what everything REALLY sounds like and not what I THINK it sounds like. It\'s very helpful. Sort of like painters doing practice copies of the great examples from art. I really learn a lot that way.
I\'ve also found in doing this that I have been able to imitate almost any style of playing --with enough experimentation and patience. If you have both Vitous and Kirk Hunter, or AO too, you really can cover most of it.
Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention was, in doing those really soft con sordino strings, what might work would be to sneak in an analogue string patch from the Roland JV synthesizers or a Roland sampled string patch (or any patch that\'s warm and fuzzyish) -just barely behind the Vitous violins so you get the realism of the Vitous but supported with the depth and warmth of an analogue patch.
I just played around a bit with trying to emulate the first few bars of the preludio. Yes, it can be done quite well with those patches I mentioned.
I was just playing the violin parts.
For the first violins\' (+violas octave below?) answer to the horns, I used the 11VS-Soft# patch from Vitous, and cut back some of the high eq on them. This made them sound just about right. Then when the violins come in more strongly with their melody, I brought in one of the 24 violins patch from the Kirk Hunter library.....ooohh, sounds so lush. Anway, now I\'m excited about this stuff.