I´ve been a GS user for over a year and one thing I`ve really missed is a good brass sample CD using all the advantages of the GS. So for a while I´ve had in mind to start working on one. I would like to concentrate on one instrument at a time starting with the French horn.
This would be a huge collection of different phrasings and articulations, PP, MF, F, FF, recorded in a concert hall with released triggered ambience sounds. I would also like to record a horn section with 3 or 4 French horns playing in unisono.
Special attention would be given to legato play, having different samples for legato and non-legato. Staccatos etc would have maybe 4-6 samples per note so you can rapidly repeat the same note and have a different sample played each time.
I would also like to experiment with different tunings. A horn section would propably sound much better playing in perfect tuning (like when playing live) than just tampered tuning. You could use the keyboard dimension to switch between different tunings.
So that`s the plan. I`m going to do some experiments before deciding to go forward with this project to hear if I can get the results I`m after. I`ve contacted a top class professional horn player who is willing to co-operate.
If anyone has any ideas or suggestions for a library like this, please let me know.
Hi! I totally agree! There\'s a large gap in the brass sample world. The brass in advanced orchestra sucks badly (way too close mic\'ed),
especially the trombone. The horn and trumpet is pretty horrible too. Miroslav has decent samples, and they sound great. The problem with miroslav is the lack of playing styles, articulations and most importantly dynamics. There are only 3 different dynamics (portamento at mf, 4 horns unison at mp and ff (which really sounds more like F, knowing that horns can go way beyond the loudness level in miroslav)) and it isnt enough. The staccato patch is also a menace to play with, being sampled at only one dynamic level. I guess it is due to the lack of ram in the days the library was made, but maybe its fixed in the gigasampler version?
Anyway, It sounds like you\'re on the job!! And that is excellent! I have resorted to a pretty extreme thing.. i\'m playing the horn myself, on my final mix. Same goes for trumpet and trombone. Of course it gets harder with ensembles but this works for now )
Yeah I saw that page, you mentioned it eariler. Anyway I listened to a few of those example files, and while the soundquality was excellent, the samples sounded unusuable for orchestral purposes. They sound like they were sampled extremely close to the instrument. It might work for quartets and trios and stuff like that, but it wont work for music scored for full orchestra in a hall. I\'ll certainly pick up the library, however, coz i\'m sure I can make it usuable with some tweaking in soundforge. Eq and panning etc. Anyway, I strongly suggest anyone who compose orchestral music on a serious level, to buy/borrow a horn, a trombone and a trumpet and just record your own phrases. Even just one horn over a final orchestral mix will make the music come more alive.. better fool the listener into thinking its a real orchestra (providing that you actually CAN play the instrument :-) (its quite easy really, takes maybe a week of practicing to get fairly decent. Decent enough to do simple melodylines anyway. If you need more complex stuff you\'ll just have your fellow hornplayer stop by for a few minutes :=)
..coz when the listener hears one real instrument line, (providing that the rest is well programmed) (s)he is likely to assume that the rest is real too. :=) It\'s like the instrument manages to disguise the sequenced music. At least that\'s my experience. If you don\'t believe me I\'d strongly recommend you to listen to Chris Beck\'s underscore for the tv-series Buffy the vampire slayer. Chris does the midi-sequencing in the traditional fashion first, and then he hires some additional woodwind/string/brass player to play over the mix, and the result speaks for itself. He had me fooled.
Btw Mr.Horn samplelibrary maker, I might be speaking for myself here, but I feel that the most useful thing would be loads of articulations from an ensemble of 3-4 horns. Expressivo in all dynamics, staccatos in all dynamics as well truckloads of FFF(FFFF!) notes. 4-5 samples per key would be fine. Crescendos would be nice too, but avoid sforzato notes. It gets more usuable when you don\'t have that little punch in the beginning. Also it would be cool to have them play some intervals. Like a legato from C1 to C2 (octave) or a fifth, or fourth. Anyway, you\'ll figure out this yourself! I wish you all the best! We\'ve been waiting for a library like this for a long time now! Hopefully you won\'t get greedy on us :=)
Nah only kidding, if you feel that your final product is worth selling, sell it.
[This message has been edited by Thomas_J (edited 09-13-1999).]
It is much more flexible if the instrument is \"dry\". It\'s no problem to place such instruments in every ambience you want. But if you have samples with a great hall. It sounds every time equal. Furthermore dry instruments has more details.
One problem when planning a sample library like this is to decide the amount of room/hall ambience to go with the sample. I guess that many sound designers just have to compromise in order to have the sample library suit as many music styles as possible. With a ambient version I`m aiming to a \"classic\" use as that is the kind of music I´m working with right now (no doubt I´ll be using them in my pop/rock recordings as well).
It`s true that a dry recording has it`s benefits. It`s good to have different kinds of samples to work with. But in the case of classical music (and any other style, I think the barriers are fading) and especially when brass instruments are concerned, the enviroment has an important impact on the sound. The quality of the sound is not only the instrument itself (and the player), but also the surroundings.
I´m recording with a multichannel setup and doing the final mix in my computer. I thought of having two samples per note, \"dry\" and ambient. By mixing these you can get the amount of reverberation you need.
The problem is that I´m running out of controllers. I`m using the mod wheel and foot pedal to control dynamics (as opposed to using velocity layers which I think work only with percussive instruments and playing styles).
So should I just have two different sample sets (\"dry\" and ambient)? You can use a second midi channel in your sequencer to do the mix, having the ambient samples on that channel. That`s gonna mean a lot of extra work and meg`s, maybe not all of the samples need two versions (staccatos?).
If this turns out to be the quality product I´m after, I`ll make it available to all. I´ll ask for a price since many people make a living in the sample industry but I`m not a greedy man :-)
I hope I`m not violating any Forum rules since this message is getting a little commercial. It´s hard to say where the line goes.
I personally would open the Forum for sample manufacturers (maybe they could have an own discussion group). They can give us important information and recieve feedback from the users of their products.