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Topic: VSL weakness

  1. #1

    VSL weakness

    Okay everybody. Time to spill the beans. We all know the strengths of VSL, but I\'d like to hear about its weaknesses. What is the downside of this library? For what instruments or articulations do you find yourself using something else.

  2. #2

    Re: VSL weakness

    The price.

  3. #3

    Re: VSL weakness

    Actually, nothing much. I\'ve pretty much come to rely solely on VSL. With the addition of the Pro Edition, it will fill out most of the holes from the 1st edition (lots of low brass, sordino strings, the rest of the woodwinds, celesta, for example). VSL is probably the best money I\'ve ever spent! Really! At the very least it inspires me to write better music. Yes, it\'s not cheap but IMHO, it\'s worth every penny!

    -matt mariano

  4. #4

    Re: VSL weakness

    The horns are vienesse, They actually do have quite a bit of power, but not the \"round\" sound of french horns. yet [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    The trumpet sustains dont have as much over the top power that I\'d like to have access too (but you can layer the solos together and actually get some power, as well teh SFZZ and some of the shorter notes like some of the have quite a bit of sizzle, its just the longer sustains that dont)...here\'s hoping for SAM to nail trumpets.

    Oboe isn\'t french (yet), but in the pro edition its grown on me quite a bit. I actually like it quite a lot now with the vibrato and expression, still its not that \"typical\" oboe sound.

    The legatos are RAM hogs, but sound great.

    Repetitions are awesome, but take some getting used to, in understanding how they work. I think alot of people dont actually use these things because they are either afraid of them, or just havent spent the time learning the tool (I think giga 3 will help make these even better, and the fast repetitions are things I think will go into my template, they are jsut too cool)

    Giga 2.5 hinders the library\'s pontential quite a bit. (I\'m finding ideas in kontakt much better, and cant wait for giga 3)

    Section strings, sound great, but lack the vibrato most \"hollywood\" people like (benefits great from layering the solo violin on top tho, fantastic sound)

    Ambience, this really depends on your position on the subject. I find that VSL actually takes really well to verbs + EQs and is totally different sounding than using somethiing thats close mic\'d (comparing the difference between DD\'s close stuff and VSL\'s recordings shows you that its a completely different sound). Still no matter what, its not a lush hall sound \"out of the box\". Where you stand on that subject is personal, I\'m firmly in the camp that I like ambience in samples, but VSL as enough \"space\" for me. Why people consider it close mic\'d really dumbfounds me. Its not. The percussion shows this... but anyway.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    there are \"problems\" per se, but alot of it is based on personal taste. PLus theres way too much good outwaying these issues. The same will go for QLSO I\'m sure. Every library has problems. GOS does, SISS does, etc etc [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    What I do find about VSL thats cool/frustrating tho is that theres jsut so much damn material, that you initially think theres a problem because you load up a single patch and base the sound of the instrument off of that one patch... when there\'s so many others that you should try that shows you they may have the sound you\'re after. Its not your typical lib, love it or hate it for that [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Me likey.

    I also agree with Matt, one of the most inspirational libraries out there. There\'s so much that makes you say to yourself \"oh yah, and instrument can do that too\"

  5. #5

    Re: VSL weakness

    Actually, from hearing demos, I think the French Horns do sound a little tinny and not very full sounding. I\'ve never used it, though, so I didn\'t want to say anything for fear of sounding stupid(hell, the best sounds I\'ve ever used are soundfonts. What does that say about me?). But now I\'ve got confirmation from someone who actually uses it! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    So, I guess I\'d have to say the brass is the weakness (although 175,000 times better than what I use [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] .

  6. #6

    Re: VSL weakness

    This might come as a miracle to some, given that a few believe I repeat everything I\'m spoonfed by the VSL folks [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] but here\'s what I don\'t like:

    First off, the first edition oboe just sucks. I don\'t like it one bit and practically don\'t use it. Can\'t wait to try out the vibrato version though because right now it\'s useless to me.

    Horn ensembles. The f horns are, like King says, not as round as french horns. Can\'t say I care for the sound, it\'s too harsh.

    The lack of f patches in the legato set for trumpet and trombone ensembles. I hope this gets resolved.

  7. #7

    Re: VSL weakness

    Sovereign, I emailed Herb about those missing dynamics a while back (email was dated 03.09.03) and this was his response:

    \"Hello Michael,

    I send you an excerpt of a posting I did recetly in our website forum:

    Q1: Herb, is it true that the missing basic-dynamics of all first-edition
    instruments will be made available to all VIP-users?

    We discussed it with our distributors in Frankfurt and all agreed that we
    will offer a free update for all those who won\'t (or can\'t) upgrade.
    It\'s not a final list, but I would offer the following gigs:
    Trumpet ensemble performance legato forte
    Trombone ensemble performance legato forte
    Double basses performance legato range extension (plus one octave)
    Violin performance legato range extension (plus one octave)
    String tremolo sustains looped
    Oboe sustained vibrato
    Trumpet ensemble marcato sustain
    and some goodies and surpises.

    all in all up to 3 gigabyte completely new recorded sample stuff for free

    best wishes
    Herb Tucmandl\"

    It\'s been a while, hope to see this very soon!

    As far as weaknesses go, I can\'t speak to anything other than the Performance Set at this point. As far as I\'m concerned, I spent money on the most unique, powerful feature of this library, and it is simply the best thing I\'ve ever done with any money I\'ve ever had at any point... ever. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    As King says, they are RAM beasts, but I can deal for now. The biggest complaint I\'ve got really, is with the Performance Tool that accompanies the Performance Set. I\'ve heard it can be glichy, but I\'ve pretty much had no probs with it at all, just the odd note that hangs (which has only happened maybe twice since last March, and is easily corrected.) What I have been unhappy with, is the lack of instrument presets. If I start a new project with a new Giga template, I\'ve gotta go instrument by instrument and tell the Performance Tool (PT) what the range is and what octave offset to use every time. That is still really annoying, despite the fact taht I usually use templates. Also, I downloaded a newer version of the PT a while back, and found that when saving a file for the PT setup, it still would not remember which directory I last saved to. In my case, I\'m saving over a network to the master computer on a data drive under a directory that I keep all my projects in organized by date. I\'ve gotta navigate the network to that place... every time I save or open anything using the PT.

    Another small issue I have, is the short length of some notes when using the legato samples of the PS. This is easily worked around, and I suppose wouldn\'t be an issue at all if I owned the full set.

    SO I\'m picking up the Woodwinds/Brass portion, and that\'ll prolly be it for me. I\'ll get the Pro versions of the PS and the WW/Brass parts of the lib, make my brass a combo of QLSO and SAM, my percussion QLSO, strings a solid combo of SISS and VSL, with solo KH (I actually don\'t like the VSL solo violin demos - which I expected to amaze me, but hasn\'t happened yet, I\'ll just wait and see.)

    Really, like every one else here has disclaimed - these are such minor details compared to how AMAZING this library really is. I\'m sure at some point my petty gripings will be corrected for, but they are just that when compared to what this library has acheived, they are just petty problems.


  8. #8

    Re: VSL weakness

    Originally posted by greatzed:
    The price.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Now I\'m putting on my VSL \"dealer hat.\"

    1. Going by list price only for easy comparisons, the 94GB First Edition costs $32.87 per gig.

    2. With the Pro Edition update (240GB), the price is $21.58 per GB.

    3. The primary \"weaknesses\" in VSL have been in two categories:
    a. stylistic
    b. implementation

    STYLISTIC - The oboe and horn are Viennese. They have different sounds and are performed differently. I don\'t see that as a weakness. As an arranger, I see it as a different color I didn\'t have before. For $100, you can fill in the gap with the SAM Horns. Both issues are being corrected in the Symphonic-1 Cube tentatively scheduled for Q1 2004.

    IMPLEMENTATION - Primarily one area - looped sustains. This has been thoroughly corrected in the Pro Edition.

    4. SIZE - the sheer size of the library has been a bit of a turn off for some. When I first met with Martin Tichy on July 2, 2002, and he told me that the VSL would ultimately be 2-4 terabyte in size, I said, \"This library is the obsessive compulsive\'s dream come true.\" When I began to work with it once the beta DVDs arrived, I had to change my opinion, because what I discovered as an arranger/composer is that I had a lot choice of color and articulations to choose from.

    Not only that, but as I\'ve continued to produce and release our X-Treme VSL Support Training guides and templates, I\'ve discovered that VSL not only gives me articulation choices, but options in how to use them that match my working procedures.

    5. THE STRINGS - I agree with King about the Violins, but for the lower strings (Violas, Cellos and Basses), you can write incredible ensembles (VLAS - CELLOS - BASSES; VLAS - VLAS - CELLOS - CELLOS, etc.) and get that big Jerry Goldsmith rich sound.

    BENEFIT - Importing
    The current version of Kontakt (1.2.1) imports 85% to 90% of the First Edition with no problems. A/B tests of Kontakt vs. Giga found either version to sound equal to the other. For me, that\'s a two-fer. I can put VSL on a Giga system, then import parts of it into Kontakt to run on my sequencing system.

    Every library has strengths and weaknesses because they represent a unique vision from the entrepreneur who created it. In the end, VSL has far more strengths than weaknesses. So if you decide to order, please give us shot.

    Good question, BTW.

  9. #9

    Re: VSL weakness

    Hi Peter, so it\'s possible to use VSL with Kontakt?

    Are there any special Kontakt version in the pipes?

  10. #10

    Re: VSL weakness

    I wouldn\'t say the brass as a whole is a weakness. Some of it is still quite usable and totally great. The performance mp/mf horns are great. The repetitions are great. The Solo Horn and some of the solo trumpet stuff is great. *I* like the trombones (mixed with DDBE its awesome). Its jsut not \"hollywood huge\". Some of this is being addressed tho. In fat most of the \"problems\" I\'d stated are being addressed.

    I forgot to mention the loops (who the hell uses more than 24 second sustains in strings?...), but yah the brass fortes and Xfade patches can use loops, as well as the trills and tremolos, but like peter said. Its taken care of.

    Mike, lack of presets? Resetting every instrument range.... eh? What? Just load up the instrument preset, and its done for yah, you can even save your own \"settings\" for each instrument I beleive.

    About Kontakt, I\'ve done some conversions to of VSL, and I think it performas BETTER in KTKT than Giga 2.5. much more so because those \"giga limitations\" aren\'t there. HOwever there are some conversions and giga options that aren\'t available in KTKT. For me tho the added benefits are worth losing the one or two options from some of the bigger KS+Mod wheel switch patches.

    Add Time machine to the picture and \"Happy Happy Joy Joy\" (jsut dont try time machine on the legato patches unless you have boat loads of RAM)

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