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Topic: OK so now it starts / a comparison of QLSO vs VSL demos.

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  1. #1

    OK so now it starts / a comparison of QLSO vs VSL demos.

    I like many in this forum, I have been waiting for QLSO. I have actualy set aside the $$ for it. (meaning my wife doesn\'t know I have been sliding $$ into my secret stash!).

    The demos arrive today.
    I download. Bummed about the 24 bit size but thank god for DSL.

    My first impression was not so good. I am thinking maybe because I own VSL and am used to hearing it up close and personal my perceptions are a bit out of wack.

    So I set up a simple demo shootout test. The VSL demos vs the QLSO demos.
    Rather than convert the QLSO demos into mp3s, I did just the opposite.

    I burned a CD of the VSL demos (thanks itunes) and imported them into Pro Tools HD.
    Then I converted those VSL 16 bit files into 24 bit files to play along side the QLSO 24 bit files.

    This is obviously not fair to VSL because in reality they are still low band width MP3 files but since Doug was firm in his desire NOT to have qlso demos converted into MP3\'s I figured I would oblige him.

    So now I have a batch of QLSO demos and a mix of old VSL demos and some new Pro edition demos.

    My headphones are grados and Senn 600s.
    Monitors are Genelec S30s, 1031s and ADAM S3a\'s. (which are awesome and brutal. Email me if you want to talk about my obsession with monitors!)

    For me it was no contest.
    It did not come down to which esthetic I prefered. (big room tone or small room).
    It was about Realism of articulations.
    Meat. Bottom end. Balls. Power. warmth.
    VSL to my ears was the clear winner.

    I know most guys in this forum are going to fall in deep lust with QLSO. I only posted this because some of the \"rave\" comments on the demos are way out whack to my ears. These are not the \"best orchestra demos\" ever produced.

    To be really extra fair. I was not blown away by the original VSL demos either. It was the later USER demos that showed up after guys had some time with the set.
    Since I do not know how long the demo composers had QLSO I will not come to any firm conclusions about it. Perhaps with more time my jaw will be on the floor.

    My money is still allocated for QLSO.
    I am just a bit more cautious now after my demo comparison.

    Please keep in mind that I am one to rave about libs that knock me out. And I will equally slam a Lib that dissapoints.
    QLSO certainly does not deserve to be slammed, minute one, for the first batch of demos. Its just that to my ears it does not earn raves from this round of demos. QLSO is an excellent sounding LIB. No question. Now it gets down to personal taste.

    I think this thread really is a very simple request that before anyone Slams QLSO or exhaults it far above VSL, please do some detailed comparisons.

    These are big purchases. Hype does not help.

    I can\'t wait for more user demos and some really detailed discussion on pros and cons of each lib. This is getting really fun. Except for the fact that I have to keep building more computers!

    I am a huge QL fan. I will certainly be downloading every new demo they post.

    ( my disclosure - I do not know either devolper. I am not a beta tester for either. I am not a sample devolper. Just a composer who is obsessed with all things music and audio. My guitar addiction is in remission thanks to a 24 step program recently completed) [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

  2. #2

    Re: OK so now it starts / a comparison of QLSO vs VSL demos.

    know most guys in this forum are going to fall in deep lust with QLSO.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Most? Nah. The ones gloating now are mostly the same ones who were gloating when there was not even a demo available. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    I agree with your assessment.

  3. #3

    Re: OK so now it starts / a comparison of QLSO vs VSL demos.

    Ed, I\'m one of those who have been waiting for this day to come for several months now. And I\'m really glad that we have now got the first real experience of EWQLSO.

    I have to say that I\'m very happy with the sound and the quality of it. You can really feel the sound. At least I do.

    With VSL I find that I\'m missing that feeling which I get from listening to these EWQLSO demos, but of course we can\'t expect that the first batch of demos show off all articulation etc. of this big lib.

    Anyway, VSL and EWQLSO are very different libs but yet the same. I think this is more a battle between Ambience vs. Sterile (couldn\'t find better term). I\'ll have very difficult time choosing whether to go with EWQLSO or VSL.

    NB. I don\'t have very great monitors, but I do have a very good headphones. However, I know that\'s not the same.

  4. #4

    Re: OK so now it starts / a comparison of QLSO vs VSL demos.

    Sharmy, I don\'t think that virtual orchestra can never ever replace the real thing!

    This is same as in my job as an organist, some people think that electronic organs will or can replace the real pipe organs but in fact they can\'t! However, electronic organs are nice option if you just can\'t save up to the real thing. Also as an practice instrument, I have one at home and it\'s really nice.

    I have the same view in regards of virtual orchestra, that\'s I think it\'s a good way to see and hear how it possible will sound played by real orchestra. So it give me a small glimpse on whether I need to fix something in the orchestration etc.
    If I could have a choice between virtual or my own orchestra (real people) I choice the real one.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Re: OK so now it starts / a comparison of QLSO vs VSL demos.

    Originally posted by ed hamilton:

    I know most guys in this forum are going to fall in deep lust with QLSO. I only posted this because some of the \"rave\" comments on the demos are way out whack to my ears. These are not the \"best orchestra demos\" ever produced.

    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">That\'s you opinion Ed, not everybody\'s.

    Look, as far as sounding exactly like a real orchestra goes, neither makes it. In fact, I\'ve yet to hear any demo that can even remotely convince me its a real orchestra.

    But when I commented on QLSO, I said it was the best sounding sample orchestra I\'d yet heard. It gave a really great impression of an orchestra and had a wonderful depth and space to the sound. I admire that.

    The actual music in the demos is not especially my thing anymore. When I first stepped into film music a decade back it may have appealed. Now, it all sounded as pretty samey as a thousand other things, BUT it was all very well programmed by talented musicians and has shown us some of QLSOs potential - which was the point of them.

    VSL does have some amazing sampled instruments, but I work week in week out with professional orchestral musicians, and when you sit day after day listening to a flautist warming up, or my wife practising her scales on the fiddle, or my next door neighbour bulking up for his next tuba solo, nothing sounds even remotely close or as good as the real thing. The performance instruments so many rave on about in VSL don\'t sound particularly real to my ears. I can hear the joins and, great idea as they are, they don\'t quite make it for me cos they still sound fake. Better than many, yes, but still fake. If I want a great sounding flute for a cue, I\'ll record a real one thanks.

    But that\'s not the final point of these libraries for me. I like an IMPRESSION of what it will sound like when played with a proper orchestra and for me I think QL wins because of (what sounds to me) like more depth, space, richness and colour in the sounds. I\'ve not heard the initimate stuff yet and there\'s always that chance that I\'d prefer another library. But for the big Hollywood sound, it works very nicely.

  6. #6

    Re: OK so now it starts / a comparison of QLSO vs VSL demos.

    JonP,

    Of course its just my opinion!
    Just as you are expressing yours.
    I also fully realized that it was going to be an unpopular opinion in this forum.
    I went the distance on setting up my comparison session so I would be very certain on what I was hearing.

    But I will certainly stand by my statement countering the claim that these \"are the best orchestral demos ever\". (as was asserted in another thread)

    While I state that I am a guitarist, I am only so after a previous life as a double bassist. ( and I still do chamber dates on it)
    I have spent YEARS of my life sitting inside of great orchestras. I also PLAY on large orchestra dates. Not to mention spending years sitting in very large broadway orchestras.
    You can be certain that I know exactly what an orchestra sounds like. (and yes orchestra sample libs are WAY more in tune than the real thing. Sit next to the bassonist sometime!)

    Last night I watched the DVD of Dances with Wolves. My little entertainment system is watching dvds on my Titatium with my Senn 600s on. (way cool). Hold the ti right up to your face and its like a personal Imax theater (ok not really but you get the idea)

    I think the amount of ambience on the qlso demos is way overdone by comparison to the Dances soundtrack. The Horns in Dances are simply beautifull. That score has a much shorter room decay. Very Full. Very effective. zero wash out.

    Just as most mockups tend to overdue the reverbs perhaps this set of qlso demos went a bit heavy in that direction also.

    But my original post was to simply suggest that potential buyers should really set up a good demo comparison shootout. Especially since EW does not make it easy by not releasing the demos in MP3 format.

    For me, I am waiting a bit longer to hear more demos before I plunk down the $$ for qlso.

    The idea of a great lib inside the kompakt engine is very compelling to me.
    I was so hoping to be knocked out by the demos. After setting up my test I am not.

    and of course.... its just my opinion. Worth exactly what you paid to read it.

  7. #7

    Re: OK so now it starts / a comparison of QLSO vs VSL demos.

    First of all, congratulations to all the demo creators. These are very good demos. I am very impressed with the quality of this library from what I\'ve heard so far.

    The percussion and low brass really emphasize an aggressive sound that I think may be lacking a bit in VSL. I wish there were more winds in the demos.

    I agree with Lee regarding cross-platform usablity. This is a big plus in my books for EWQLSO.

    Ben Ripley

  8. #8

    Re: OK so now it starts / a comparison of QLSO vs VSL demos.

    Based on the available demos, EWQL beats VSL for me. EWQL has the Hollywood sound that will be heard on many AAA games next year; I have no doubt. It sounds like they knew what sound composers want to create, and geared the library towards that. It sounds like a library that was designed to help its users make money. And that\'s what commercial music is about.

    But what about ease of use? Which library allows you to get things done quickly, without hundreds of hours of piano-roll tweaking?

    I can\'t wait til I win the giveaway. How sweet.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    Re: OK so now it starts / a comparison of QLSO vs VSL demos.

    Hey Ed

    I wasn\'t aiming it all at you, just that first sentence. I\'m not a fan when people appear to print their sentences as gospel and and don\'t qualify it with \"IMO\". Just a pet peeve.

    I started my career with several years as pianist for the ENO, and a recent four playing with the BBC Concert Orchestra, as well as (what feels like a gazilion) different ensembles so it is kind of my area from a performing perspective too.

    Opinions are bound to differ, especially in a thread which demands debate. Both libraries sound exceptionally good but it seems that the effectiveness of the ambience and placing is going to be an even bigger factor than many believed beforehand. Articulations are important but they are not the only consideration.

  10. #10

    Re: OK so now it starts / a comparison of QLSO vs VSL demos.

    JonP: You\'re one of the first to suggest that the VSL legato features sound \"fake\". You can be pretty sure that all the major users of the library including those who have done (official) demos for it do not agree with that assessment.

    As for the Hollywood sound, I think you can get pretty close to \"the\" sound with VSL if one were to mock up the same clips. Heck, mock up a LOTR track with VSL and QLSO. I\'m willing to bet VSL comes very close, QLSO not so. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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