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Topic: Special Tip Of The Week: Turning stops on and off in your G.C. Pipe Organ projects

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  1. #1

    Special Tip Of The Week: Turning stops on and off in your G.C. Pipe Organ projects

    My prepared Tip Of The Week is on hold until next week. In the wake of the Garritan Classic Pipe Organ's release, I'm posting this special tip for the fortunate people who already have the Library.

    This tip is only for DAW software users - Not meaning to slight Finale and other notation program users, but what I outline here won't work in notation.

    The following uses simple logic, and may very well have already occurred to people starting to experiment with the organs. But now that I've had this procedure confirmed by Chad as a good approach, I'll post it and maybe it will help some of you early buyers.

    It's easy enough to load the ARIA slots with any combination of stops you want to use. The Ensemble menu has a long list of pre-set combinations of stops which could very well contain just what you need for a given project. Those Ensembles are programmed so that all 16 of the ARIA slots are set to Omni mode. That means all of the stops loaded will respond to all MIDI channels. No matter what channel your keyboard is on, the full sound of the organ will play, all stops out!

    But to emulate a physical organ and the way organists work at the consoles, we want to be able to sometimes have only one or a few stops playing. Organ music often calls for particular stops to be used during different passages.

    How does one do that when the stops are all in Omni mode? --Well, you can't. It's the simple straight-forward nature of MIDI that any instrument on a given MIDI channel will sound off when you play your keyboard on that channel.

    Here's how to have the best of two worlds: The ability to play through a piece, hearing the full organ, and then to do a little easy-to-do editing and have as complex a performance you want with stops playing solo, in duet, in any combination you want, whenever you want.

    Note that with its current programming, this stop switching can't be done live. It takes two steps - recording, then editing.

    Of course you could just put each stop on a different MIDI channel, and record each stop's line separately, layering your project as you go. That would work, ending up with tracks that have gaps in them whenever a stop is to not be heard. But I know organists would prefer to be able to actually play a piece, and then afterwards fix up the project file as needed.

    Simply do the following. My point of reference is Sonar, so some steps may involve slightly different moves in your program:

    1) Record a piece on a single MIDI track, temporarily ignoring that all stops in either the loaded Ensemble or custom collection of stops are always all playing.

    2) Insert more MIDI tracks, the same number as how many stops are being used.

    3) Drag copies of the recorded MIDI track into the new tracks. With Snap off, hold down Shift and Control while dragging down, and you'll make a duplicate which is in exactly the same position as the original.

    4) In ARIA, change all slots from Omni to discrete MIDI channels.

    5) In Sonar, set all MIDI tracks to correspondingly discrete MIDI channels.

    6) Make recording passes through the piece, recording automation for the Mute button on each track, turning stops on and off as needed, getting the results as on a physical organ when the musician turns stops on and off while playing.

    ALTERNATE METHOD - In the Piano Roll View, insert CC7 volume events of "0" and "127" to turn the track on and off.

    If you have a control surface, or a keyboard/controller hybrid, you could conceivably set things up so you can work on muting and un-muting the entire project in one pass.

    Volume control:

    1) If dynamic volume changes are wanted (beyond what can actually be done on an organ), that would also be done with recorded volume automation on each track, either by moving the sliders one at a time with a mouse, or several at a time via a control surface.

    2) Organists, and people wanting a sound that's limited to what's only possible on a real organ would set the various levels in ARIA and let them stay that way throughout the piece. BUT---

    3) In Sonar at least, in order for the various volume slider positions in ARIA to stay put during playback, each of the corresponding MIDI tracks need to be disengaged. That's done by right clicking over each fader, and checking the "Disable Control" option. After doing that, be sure and not touch the Sonar sliders again, because that automatically returns control of ARIA's sliders back over to Sonar.

    Simple - obvious even. But if you have Garritan Classic Pipe Organs and haven't tried something like this yet, you should try it so you can make your stop usage as complex as you want.

    Randy

  2. #2

    Turning stops on and off in G.C. Pipe Organ when playing live

    I love to play G.C. Pipe Organ live, but want an easy way to switch between different stops/stops combinations.

    My question is:
    Can I program the buttons of a midi controller keyboard to change midi channels?
    I'm a newbie to my AKAI MPK88 midi controller keyboard and don't know if this is possible.

    Thanks in advance
    -roger

  3. #3

    Re: Turning stops on and off in G.C. Pipe Organ when playing live

    Quote Originally Posted by hospitanten View Post
    ...Can I program the buttons of a midi controller keyboard to change midi channels?...
    Well, Roger, I don't think there's a pretty way to do that. Normally the MIDI channel a track is tuned to is set in the track header. However if you don't set the MIDI channel there, then you need to keep changing the sending MIDI channel from your keyboard.

    I've never attempted it, but I suppose you could turn the dial on your keyboard to keep changing the channel, and the different channels would all be in your MIDI track.

    But that would only make for one stop at a time, or a combination of stops if you had them set to the same channel in ARIA.--- Trying to picture all that live turning of a knob, dialing through the 16 possible channels - Maybe you can type in numbers on your controller.--

    Hmmm - worth some experimentation I guess, but sounds pretty messy to me.

    Randy

  4. #4

    Re: Turning stops on and off in G.C. Pipe Organ when playing live

    Hi Randy,

    Yes I can dialing through all midi channels on my keyboard with turning a knob, but it would be fantastic if I could program the 8 on/off-buttons on my keyboard, so each of them could have their own midi channel.

    A touch of a button, and the respective midi channel(stops) play. The buttons light up when on, so I could easily see which channel(stops) is playing.
    I
    I hope I can get it to work. I must read through the manual

    Thank you!

    -roger

  5. #5

    Re: Turning stops on and off in G.C. Pipe Organ when playing live

    Quote Originally Posted by hospitanten View Post
    Hi Randy,

    Yes I can dialing through all midi channels on my keyboard with turning a knob, but it would be fantastic if I could program the 8 on/off-buttons on my keyboard, so each of them could have their own midi channel.

    A touch of a button, and the respective midi channel(stops) play. The buttons light up when on, so I could easily see which channel(stops) is playing.
    I
    I hope I can get it to work. I must read through the manual

    Thank you!

    -roger
    Hi Roger,

    I'm currently working on a small patch to the GCPO that allows you to load a dozen individual stops within a single ARIA instrument. Then you have MIDI CC xxx control over Volume for each stop, and a MIDI CC xxx to enable/disable each stop. It is very powerful way to interact with the Organs. Currently under testing right now. Hope to have something more to share with you soon.

    Best,
    Chad

  6. #6

    Re: Turning stops on and off in G.C. Pipe Organ when playing live

    Quote Originally Posted by hospitanten View Post
    Hi Randy,

    Yes I can dialing through all midi channels on my keyboard with turning a knob, but it would be fantastic if I could program the 8 on/off-buttons on my keyboard, so each of them could have their own midi channel.

    A touch of a button, and the respective midi channel(stops) play. The buttons light up when on, so I could easily see which channel(stops) is playing.
    I
    I hope I can get it to work. I must read through the manual

    Thank you!

    -roger
    Do let us know if that works. I have a sophisticated keyboard interface, and I wouldn't be able to do that - I don't think it's possible. But if you work out a way, it would be extremely useful to people who are wanting to play the organs live, and switch stops in real time.

    --But what happens when you have need of pedal notes that drone through several change of other stops?-- They would be cut off when you switch channels. And layering the stops in the way you need for each piece would be a rather major programming exercise to go through each time - And you'd have to do Something of the sort, otherwise you would only have one stop playing at a time.--

    Randy

  7. #7

    Re: Turning stops on and off in G.C. Pipe Organ when playing live

    Hi Chad,

    Very interesting. Looking forward to that.

    -roger

  8. #8

    Re: Turning stops on and off in G.C. Pipe Organ when playing live

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Do let us know if that works. I have a sophisticated keyboard interface, and I wouldn't be able to do that - I don't think it's possible. But if you work out a way, it would be extremely useful to people who are wanting to play the organs live, and switch stops in real time.

    --But what happens when you have need of pedal notes that drone through several change of other stops?-- They would be cut off when you switch channels. And layering the stops in the way you need for each piece would be a rather major programming exercise to go through each time - And you'd have to do Something of the sort, otherwise you would only have one stop playing at a time.--

    Randy

    Hi Randy,

    I don't know if it possible to do it like I described. I have mailed AKAI and asked if my controller can handle this.
    Interesting to see what Chad are coming up with.

    -roger

  9. #9

    Re: Special Tip Of The Week: Turning stops on and off in your G.C. Pipe Organ projec

    Hi, Garritan, and community, How are you?

    At last! After four and a half years: I'm all over it! ! !

    First of all, great job, everyone! Thank you for releasing Garritan Classic Pipe Organs. I really like that we can mix and match stops from all six organs at once.

    So far I have only tried the standalone player. The VST's were not recognized by my DAW and I have to look into that. Maybe I have to upgrade something for "VST2"? Never mind, I just noticed that the VST folder path got reset somehow.

    Is it true that the samples cannot be used with any other player? But at least it is good that if I switch to Mac I can download that player too, right? What is the upgrade policy?

    There appears to be an eight-note limit per stop. This is probably the most important shortcoming for me right now. When I play, notes frequently stop sounding before they should, even when we are nowhere near the maximum 96 or 128 total voices of polyphony.

    I was interested in the "chiff layer" but no matter how I tweak the CC12 knob, I never hear any difference when I play.

    I'm not sure why we would want omni mode on all the stops in an ensemble. Thankfully, it is fairly easy to assign different receive channels on each stop, for those of us who have a multiple-keyboard and pedal organ setup. But you already said all that. So I can assign several stops to midi channel 1, and a few more to channel 2, etc. At least for the stand-alone. Now that I am just starting to play with this in my DAW, I am wondering how best to go about it. It may still be easier to use multiple instances of the Aria player when necessary rather than use omni.

    Finally, I would also be interested in ways to rapidly switch registrations. I would like to press a program change button on my keyboard and have multiple stops turn on and off or maybe even switch ensembles...

    Right now, I am viewing this mainly as an educational opportunity to learn about historical organs. Recording music is another goal further down the road. I placed some flute and diapason stops on one keyboard from the Modern 2 (American) organ, and on another keyboard a similar registration, but from the Renaissance organ, to really hear the difference. Then, to play them both together: wild!

    Thanks again!

    May the Lord bless you,
    Philip

  10. #10

    Re: Special Tip Of The Week: Turning stops on and off in your G.C. Pipe Organ projec

    Hello, Phillip

    I'd like you to copy your post, and post it again as a new thread. The subject line could be as simple as "Some questions about Pipe Organs" - something of that nature. I'd like the experts to have the chance to see your post, but they won't have a chance to notice it when piggybacked on this previous thread.

    And by the "experts," I mean the programmers. Chad, one of the developers, has reported on this thread that an update is already being developed that will give users a way to turn stops on and off. Naturally enough, that's been the biggest request, and part of what you ask about in your post.

    Chad said, "...I'm currently working on a small patch to the GCPO that allows you to load a dozen individual stops within a single ARIA instrument. Then you have MIDI CC xxx control over Volume for each stop, and a MIDI CC xxx to enable/disable each stop. It is very powerful way to interact with the Organs. Currently under testing right now. Hope to have something more to share with you soon..."

    I have a few of your quotes that I can respond to, but do start a new thread to attract more attention, especially that of the programmers.

    "...Is it true that the samples cannot be used with any other player? But at least it is good that if I switch to Mac I can download that player too, right?..."

    Like all Garritan Libraries, Pipe Organs is programmed for the Garritan ARIA Player. Installers for Windows and for Mac are both available to users, so yes, you can download that version also.

    "...There appears to be an eight-note limit per stop. This is probably the most important shortcoming for me right now. When I play, notes frequently stop sounding before they should, even when we are nowhere near the maximum 96 or 128 total voices of polyphony..."


    That sounds like a limitation on your computer, but maybe one that won't exist once you use the Library in a host program. When my buffers are set too low, I sometimes have notes cutting off prematurely in other Libraries.

    "...I was interested in the "chiff layer" but no matter how I tweak the CC12 knob, I never hear any difference when I play..."

    I've noticed the same thing. I'm not sure what the answer is to that - it's possibly something not working correctly in this first release version. But I agree that if there's a "chiff" being added, it doesn't seem noticeable.

    Start your new thread, you'll get more feedback. Thanks.

    Randy

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