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Topic: Using Mod Wheel in Aria

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  1. #1

    Using Mod Wheel in Aria

    Hi. I just joined this forum since getting GPO4 yesterday. I'm a musician but pretty much a rookie on sound software and hardware. I"m using GPO4 with Real Band. It's pretty easy to understand the interface, but I've been using my hard synth way more than any soft synths.

    My question relates to Aria. I've looked at the manual and it speaks to using a mod wheel on a midi controller but says nothing about the mod wheel in the lower left hand corner of the Aria screen. I may have missed something though. My question is, "Can the Aria mod wheel be used in place of a midi controller?" I do have a small keyboard controller that is usb. However, I'm not a keyboard player and not very good at using it to input notation. Since I play trumpet, I was thinking of looking into a wind controller, but I would have to learn to play that also. Obviously, I looking for the easeist way to go here. Thanks for any comments.

    Stan

  2. #2

    Re: Using Mod Wheel in Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by shastastan View Post
    ... My question is, "Can the Aria mod wheel be used in place of a midi controller?" I do have a small keyboard controller that is usb. However, I'm not a keyboard player and not very good at using it to input notation. Since I play trumpet, I was thinking of looking into a wind controller, but I would have to learn to play that also. Obviously, I looking for the easeist way to go here. Thanks for any comments.

    Stan
    Welcome to the Forum, Stan, and congratulations on your great purchase!

    No - the ARIA mod wheel can't be used in place of a MIDI controller, because that virtual mod wheel's movement can't be recorded. The keyboard and the mod wheel are in ARIA just for audition purposes - you can check on an instrument's sound quickly that way.

    But it's OK that you're not a keyboardist. You have the USB controller - You can use its wheel to record the volume data, and its essential you do that in order to get the most out of the instruments.

    With MIDI you can make multiple passes at a track, recording notes or inserting them one by one with your mouse, doing the volume data recording on a real time pass through - etc- You see? MIDI is built up, bit by bit, in whatever fashion you're capable of doing.

    That's a start of an answer at least!

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: Using Mod Wheel in Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Welcome to the Forum, Stan, and congratulations on your great purchase!

    No - the ARIA mod wheel can't be used in place of a MIDI controller, because that virtual mod wheel's movement can't be recorded. The keyboard and the mod wheel are in ARIA just for audition purposes - you can check on an instrument's sound quickly that way.

    But it's OK that you're not a keyboardist. You have the USB controller - You can use its wheel to record the volume data, and its essential you do that in order to get the most out of the instruments.

    With MIDI you can make multiple passes at a track, recording notes or inserting them one by one with your mouse, doing the volume data recording on a real time pass through - etc- You see? MIDI is built up, bit by bit, in whatever fashion you're capable of doing.

    That's a start of an answer at least!

    Randy
    Thanks very much, Randy. You answered my question. I have been doing most of my midi controller stuff via events lists. I've mostly been doing the notation input via qwerty keyboard and mouse. It's a real pain not being a keyboard player. I tried a few lessons, but I'm too old for that now. Sometimes I do a rhythm method in Band In A Box where you just record using a single key and then go back and place the notes in the staff. I had used Sibelius 3.5 for a lot of years, but could not register it again after a few windows upgrades and crashes. I'm using PrintMusic now and like it better anyway. For what I do, I can't see paying for a new Finale or Sibelius. I have an Alesis usb Q25 keyboard that actually has full size piano keys. It also has a couple of octaves each way. Sfpz here we come! Thanks, again Randy.

  4. #4

    Re: Using Mod Wheel in Aria

    Just a word of caution, the mod wheel is normally assigned to MIDI controller #0.
    And I don't want to confuse you.

    In most MIDI file implementations cc#0 is used to control vibrato.

    It is better, if you can, to use cc#11, expression or, for wind instruments, optionally to use cc#2 (not necessarily).
    This, expression function, is normally assigned to the controller foot pedal of a MIDI keyboard.

    This is really only necessary if you wish to maintain compatibility of the MIDI file with other MIDI file playing systems.
    If the file you create will only be used with Garritan instruments then you can safely ignore this, although the new Organ library (Classic Pipe Organs (GCPO)) seems to move away from cc#0 = expression, where cc#11 operates the 'swell pedal'.

    John.

  5. #5

    Re: Using Mod Wheel in Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by SysExJohn View Post
    Just a word of caution, the mod wheel is normally assigned to MIDI controller #0.
    And I don't want to confuse you.

    In most MIDI file implementations cc#0 is used to control vibrato.

    It is better, if you can, to use cc#11, expression or, for wind instruments, optionally to use cc#2 (not necessarily).
    This, expression function, is normally assigned to the controller foot pedal of a MIDI keyboard.

    This is really only necessary if you wish to maintain compatibility of the MIDI file with other MIDI file playing systems.
    If the file you create will only be used with Garritan instruments then you can safely ignore this, although the new Organ library (Classic Pipe Organs (GCPO)) seems to move away from cc#0 = expression, where cc#11 operates the 'swell pedal'.

    John.
    CORRECTION - Mod Wheel is normally assigned to MIDI Controller #1. Not #0.

    ARIA, the sample player that GPO plays in, interprets both CC1 and CC11 in the same way. You can use either controller for instrument volume control. In simple set ups where you're using just GPO, it's easiest to use CC1 since your keyboard's Mod Wheel is already set up to generate CC1 data. It's a good starting point, shastastan.

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: Using Mod Wheel in Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    CORRECTION - Mod Wheel is normally assigned to MIDI Controller #1. Not #0.

    ARIA, the sample player that GPO plays in, interprets both CC1 and CC11 in the same way. You can use either controller for instrument volume control. In simple set ups where you're using just GPO, it's easiest to use CC1 since your keyboard's Mod Wheel is already set up to generate CC1 data. It's a good starting point, shastastan.

    Randy
    Thanks for the tips. Since I had not used the mod wheel before, that's good to know. I have used both cc7 and cc11 though.

  7. #7

    Re: Using Mod Wheel in Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by shastastan View Post
    Thanks for the tips. Since I had not used the mod wheel before, that's good to know. I have used both cc7 and cc11 though.
    Cool - So CC7 is used to set the basic potential volume of an instrument. It controls ARIA's volume sliders. You get a rough start on your mix by setting those the way you want. Then you use either CC1 or CC11 to play the instrument's fluctuating volume over the course of a piece, the way real world instruments are constantly changing their volume output as musicians play them.

    Note that you can use either CC11 or CC1 and get exactly the same results in ARIA. We just use whatever's most convenient for us, depending on the equipment we have.

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: Using Mod Wheel in Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Cool - So CC7 is used to set the basic potential volume of an instrument. It controls ARIA's volume sliders. You get a rough start on your mix by setting those the way you want. Then you use either CC1 or CC11 to play the instrument's fluctuating volume over the course of a piece, the way real world instruments are constantly changing their volume output as musicians play them.

    Note that you can use either CC11 or CC1 and get exactly the same results in ARIA. We just use whatever's most convenient for us, depending on the equipment we have.

    Randy
    Thanks again, Randy. I'm sid to say that we can't always get the dynamics the way we would like. We play programs of around 16 songs to retirement homes and hospitals. I really don't like normalize all that well, but trying to keep in contact with the audience, I don't have time to futz with the volume. I even use a program called MP3Gain to try and keep the volume "leveled" out. I really don't like trying to hold my trumpet with my right hand while I adjust the volume with my left either

  9. #9

    Re: Using Mod Wheel in Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by shastastan View Post
    Thanks again, Randy. I'm sid to say that we can't always get the dynamics the way we would like. We play programs of around 16 songs to retirement homes and hospitals. I really don't like normalize all that well, but trying to keep in contact with the audience, I don't have time to futz with the volume. I even use a program called MP3Gain to try and keep the volume "leveled" out. I really don't like trying to hold my trumpet with my right hand while I adjust the volume with my left either
    Hello again, Shastastan

    Hmmm, I'm not quite getting the picture of what you're talking about. Do you play your MIDI tracks live at these gigs, accompanying yourself on Trumpet, or are the MIDI tracks recorded to audio--? Either way, you're just talking about the level of playback - pure playback volume. But I'm talking about the data in the MIDI tracks which make the virtual instruments sound like real instruments, their dynamic playing - which isn't at all the same as the general volume level at which they're played back.

    Take a look at my current Tip Of The Week:

    Playing virtual instruments charactristically

    Look at the large screen shot which shows the MIDI data in the Piano Roll View of Sonar (basically the same as in any program), and in particular look at the CC11 volume control which is playing the clarinet.

    And listen to the MP3 recording at the bottom of the post of the GPO clarinet. That's the kind of dynamics I'm talking about. That recording could be played back at whatever level I want at a gig, without any futzing around of the volume control. See what I mean?

    ---Going off to see a movie with my wife, so can't reply again soon - But thought this reply could help clarify things.

    Randy

  10. #10

    Re: Using Mod Wheel in Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    CORRECTION - Mod Wheel is normally assigned to MIDI Controller #1. Not #0.

    ARIA, the sample player that GPO plays in, interprets both CC1 and CC11 in the same way. You can use either controller for instrument volume control. In simple set ups where you're using just GPO, it's easiest to use CC1 since your keyboard's Mod Wheel is already set up to generate CC1 data. It's a good starting point, shastastan.

    Randy
    You're quite right, Randy, thank you for correcting me.
    I know it so well, but it just shows what can happen when one is not concentrating.

    I had an aria from a bach cantata (which I'll post) which contains the cor anglais EQ'd to sound like an oboe da caccia and the strange notes it sometimes produces buzzing around my head. See the other thread which I'll respond to.

    Sorry about the confusion.
    John.

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