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Topic: Short Composition for Movie Trailer

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  1. #1

    Short Composition for Movie Trailer

    *Update

    Here is a improved version of the tune. I replaced the Celesta part in question with a Marimba/Xylophone and mixed the tracks differently.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXrSu...ature=youtu.be




    This is a simple piece I wrote using all Garritan IO sounds. This is the first time I've used Garritan instruments and I had a blast with them. Listening to everyone's music on this forum has inspired me and I plan to record more compostions in the near future. Any suggestions are welcome.

    *I'm currently having trouble with my Box account so I've just posted a link to youtube:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd9uuZb_PcY
    Last edited by MrMarker; 07-31-2012 at 03:42 PM. Reason: *Update

  2. #2

    Re: Short Composition for Movie Trailer

    First and foremost, welcome to the forum, MrMarker!

    This piece has that sort of inspirational feel to it, and somewhat reminds me of James Horner's Apollo 13. Other members of the forum may be able to give more insight to the actual quality of the recording than I can, but to me, it sounds quite clean, and the reverb is just right! Overall, well done!

    Thanks for sharing, and again, glad to have you here. I hope we can hear more in the future!
    Michael Obermeyer, Jr.
    youtube channel
    soundclick page

  3. #3

    Re: Short Composition for Movie Trailer

    Echoing Sanyarem's welcome--Hi, MrMarker - Thank you very much for joining the Forum!

    I think it was fortuitous that you needed to use YouTube instead of Box for your post - We had some wonderful visuals to look at while we listened. Those "Awesomeness Nature" photos are beautiful - I went to the site listed, and think it's odd that there aren't any photography credits. Thanks for posting the photo site's URL though.

    This is a very nice start on your project, and it's great you have Instant Orchestra- so many wonderful instruments in that
    Library, and so much flexibility in using them.

    I said it's a "start" because you'll get even more of the grand, cinematic sound you're going for when you start adding more layers. For instance, in your piece's current version, if there was a place a bit more than 1/2 way through when the whole thing could swell and we could hear a big, rich chord sustaining, maybe with a cymbal roll added during that crescendo - you could put together an exciting passage that way.

    IMPORTANT - I have one specific note that needs your most immediate attention: There are some wrong notes starting at 1:28, then on the same passage when it repeats starting at 1:41. The highest notes in the Celesta's pattern are wrong - I think they're a step sharp.-- If that's an acoustical trick of conflicting harmonics in the samples, it still needs to be corrected, because the music is very straight forward and simple, making the sharp notes clearly dissonant and incorrect.--

    I hope you keep up your participation here - Be sure to visit General Discussion where most people check in. Any and all topics are welcome there, including technical questions about using Garritan Libraries.

    Randy

  4. #4

    Re: Short Composition for Movie Trailer

    IMPORTANT - I have one specific note that needs your most immediate attention: There are some wrong notes starting at 1:28, then on the same passage when it repeats starting at 1:41. The highest notes in the Celesta's pattern are wrong - I think they're a step sharp.-- If that's an acoustical trick of conflicting harmonics in the samples, it still needs to be corrected, because the music is very straight forward and simple, making the sharp notes clearly dissonant and incorrect.--

    Randy[/QUOTE]

    First off, thanks for the comments sanyarem and rbowser!

    rbowser I checked out those notes you were talking about and it sounded a bit off, but not too dissonant to my ears. I checked back to my file and saw that they were indeed the correct notes - high C's over an F chord moving to a C chord. They shouldn't be dissonant at all, so what do you think it is? I think I may have may have mixed the Celesta up too high so it sounds a bit piercing, but what do you think it is? Thanks for your time, MrMarker

  5. #5

    Re: Short Composition for Movie Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMarker View Post
    ...I checked out those notes you were talking about and it sounded a bit off, but not too dissonant to my ears. I checked back to my file and saw that they were indeed the correct notes - high C's over an F chord moving to a C chord. They shouldn't be dissonant at all, so what do you think it is?...
    Hello, MrMarker - Thanks for the reply to my note.

    I thought it was a possibility that the notes for that track were actually right - that does make things more difficult. I do think you need to experiment and find a solution, because the notes are jarringly dissonant, sounding, as I said earlier, like they're sharp.

    So we're stuck with the other possibility I mentioned, "...If that's an acoustical trick of conflicting harmonics in the samples, it still needs to be corrected..." Complex overtones are happening in that upper register for the Celesta. It's something that is fairly typical for the high notes of percussion instruments. You can get up into the highest octaves, and suddenly the sound is so different that it can sound like lower octaves, or wrong notes- those overtones have just piled up so much. I've never noticed this issue in such a pronounced way with the Celesta, but there it is in your track.

    The Glockenspiel also has higher notes with pronounced, muddying overtones - But that would be the first instrument I would try as a substitute on those passages. With luck, it won't get so distorted as to sound like wrong notes, and it's the instrument most like the Celesta, making it a good thing to experiment with.

    If that doesn't work, perhaps a Vibraphone, or maybe layering in a piano on the same notes in an effort to make the actual notes more clear.

    I know you said that to you those notes I pointed out don't seem as bad as to be called "dissonant" - all I can report is that as a first time listener to your piece, they stuck out as jarring "wrong notes," so I can only say again that you really need to try some substitutions. Hope you try some of the suggestions above.

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: Short Composition for Movie Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    You can get up into the highest octaves, and suddenly the sound is so different that it can sound like lower octaves, or wrong notes- those overtones have just piled up so much. I've never noticed this issue in such a pronounced way with the Celesta, but there it is in your track.

    The Glockenspiel also has higher notes with pronounced, muddying overtones - But that would be the first instrument I would try as a substitute on those passages. With luck, it won't get so distorted as to sound like wrong notes, and it's the instrument most like the Celesta, making it a good thing to experiment with.

    If that doesn't work, perhaps a Vibraphone, or maybe layering in a piano on the same notes in an effort to make the actual notes more clear.

    Randy
    Hello again, MrMarker, I was wondering what software you are using for this? Are you using notation software, a DAW, or something else?

    I'm glad Randy mentioned the octave jump in the Celesta, because I heard that as well. Personally, I thought you had perhaps just written the part low, but perhaps it is the case that it is too high. Though, to be honest, based on what I heard, I don't think it is too high overall. The reason I asked about the software you use, is if you are using notation, it is important to keep in mind that a Celesta should be transposed down an octave, meaning the note sounds an octave higher than written. Though I do not own a Garritan Celesta sample, I do know that the Xylophone (which also should be transposed down an octave in notation) is not transposed in the sample, so when writing in a notation software, I have to manually set the transposition myself, or write it an octave higher.

    I don't normally like referring to my own posts in other people's threads, but I feel it applies well here. Last week I posted "Memories" which features the Celesta starting at 8:29. I know the Celesta is capable of the lower notes I hear in your recording, but imo, they can sound muddled and strange, which may account for it sounding like a wrong note. In Memories, the Celesta is higher and has that crisper, cleaner sound (though as I mentioned earlier, it is not GPO). I also double the accented notes of the Celesta with the Glockenspiel, (which is transposed down 2 octaves ) but that is more for emphasis than clarity.

    I'm not sure if any of that helps, but it's just something to consider!
    Michael Obermeyer, Jr.
    youtube channel
    soundclick page

  7. #7

    Re: Short Composition for Movie Trailer

    Hello again, Mr. Marker

    It turns out that the problem notes are indeed simply wrong notes. No overtones are confusing the pitch.

    Here, this was easy to put together for you. It shows you exactly what the problem notes are. There are F#s and G#s which should be natural.

    I brought your music track into Sonar. I loaded exactly the same instrument you used, the GPO Celesta. I played along with it, first playing exactly as you have it in the track. Then I made a copy of that MIDI track and corrected the notes.

    Here's a screen shot:
    The top staff shows the notes as you have them. You can see the F#s and G#s.
    The second staff is the corrected version
    , with F and G natural.



    Here's the original clip from your soundtrack, starting at 1:28 where the wrong notes first come in:

    Original

    Here's the same section with me playing along with the Celesta in my ARIA. I've turned your track down so the new Celesta can be heard clearly, but you can hear that I'm playing exactly what you have in the piece.

    Original plus Celesta

    Finally, here's the Celesta alone, playing the same passage with the notes corrected.

    Celesta corrected

    Happily, MIDI is easy to edit. Just drag those notes down 1/2 step, and you'll be back in tune.

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: Short Composition for Movie Trailer

    A warm welcome to the forum, MrMarker!

    Nice work on this in general -- I'll be interested to see the real trailer.

    I might suggest an edit and a second posting of any corrected or enhanced version in the initial thread.

    These things are always instructive for all of us.

    All the best,



    David
    -----
    David Sosnowski
    www.DavidSosnowski.com

  9. #9

    Re: Short Composition for Movie Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Hello again, Mr. Marker

    It turns out that the problem notes are indeed simply wrong notes. No overtones are confusing the pitch.

    Here, this was easy to put together for you. It shows you exactly what the problem notes are. There are F#s and G#s which should be natural.

    I brought your music track into Sonar. I loaded exactly the same instrument you used, the GPO Celesta. I played along with it, first playing exactly as you have it in the track. Then I made a copy of that MIDI track and corrected the notes.

    Here's a screen shot:
    The top staff shows the notes as you have them. You can see the F#s and G#s.
    The second staff is the corrected version
    , with F and G natural.



    Here's the original clip from your soundtrack, starting at 1:28 where the wrong notes first come in:

    Original

    Here's the same section with me playing along with the Celesta in my ARIA. I've turned your track down so the new Celesta can be heard clearly, but you can hear that I'm playing exactly what you have in the piece.

    Original plus Celesta

    Finally, here's the Celesta alone, playing the same passage with the notes corrected.

    Celesta corrected

    Happily, MIDI is easy to edit. Just drag those notes down 1/2 step, and you'll be back in tune.

    Randy
    Ah, well then... I can see that you had them in the right octave, and my advice wasn't necessary! Either way, I still really enjoyed the listen, and Randy's posting prompted me to listen to your piece a few more times. I really look forward to hearing more of your work!
    Michael Obermeyer, Jr.
    youtube channel
    soundclick page

  10. #10

    Re: Short Composition for Movie Trailer

    Randy and sanyarem I want to thank you guys for taking the time to try and help me improve my tune. I really appreciate it. Randy, after your last post I could clearly hear the wrong notes and felt rather foolish for having missed them after I rechecked them. So, I went into my DAW but, alas, saw that they were the notes I intended. I clicked each note individually and they all sounded exactly right... then I played back the passage as a whole and could clearly hear the loud F# and G# overtones. My problem (most likely a very rookie one) was that right before the end of finishing my track I decided to play the Celesta part in octaves to give it a fuller sound. With all the tracks playing I thought it sounded quite good, but didn't listen closely enough to the third note in the sequence. When you play the lowest note on the Celesta (a C) and the C an octave above it, the two clearly clash. This happens on other notes as well but not with as strong a dissonance. As sanyarem wisely pointed out: "I know the Celesta is capable of the lower notes I hear in your recording, but imo, they can sound muddled and strange, which may account for it sounding like a wrong note."

    I made a short screen capture video (.mov) so you can see and hear the problem.
    First I play what I intended the notes to sound like, next I play what was on the track (slowed down), and finally I click individually on the offending notes.

    https://www.box.com/s/9fb407c4ac9e4a748c87

    I'll take off the bottom notes (and maybe experiment with sanyarem's inventive Glockenspiel accenting) and upload the track. Again thanks for all your time and effort, MrMarker

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