Short Composition for Movie Trailer

[rbowser-]

...Randy, after your last post I could clearly hear...the loud F# and G# overtones...
I made a short screen capture video...First I play what I intended the notes to sound like, next I play what was on the track (slowed down), and finally I click individually on the offending notes...

Interesting stuff, Mr.Marker!

I'm glad my experiments led you to conducting more investigation, even though it turns out I was re-creating only what I heard on the track, and not what you actually played.

So it's a matter of anomalous overtones after all! I've run into that now and then with tuned percussion, and thought maybe that's what was going on here - but I couldn't re-create it. And I still can't, even after your new post. What we're hearing on the recording might be the result of the Celesta's sound mingling with the other instruments in the track? I'm not sure.

Just now I played your notes in unison octaves, but the ghost notes, F# and G# weren't there, so interaction with the rest of the track seems like it could be the other ingredient causing those notes to be heard.

I did hear, however, that the lowest C isn't in tune with the higher C - the two don't sound very pretty together. There are other notes which aren't too pretty on their own, like the A in the 2nd octave up is very "thunky" and of questionable pitch.

I downloaded your screen capture - it apparently was accidentally truncated, because the only section in the file is where you click on the Cs and the G on ARIA's keyboard. The other sections you mention in your post aren't there - playing the passage as intended, or the slowed down track-

But it really doesn't matter that the .mov file isn't complete - Looks like you've figured out the issue. If you take the bottom notes out, and maybe layer in a Glock, you'll probably be ok.

I want to point out that the F natural and G natural in my staff screen capture, heard in my last clip, is a nice alternative to the C-G-C you were actually playing. That could be one of those "happy accidents" where something musically is accidentally discovered. Maybe you want to try those notes instead of your original phrase to see if you like them!

Randy

[Michael A. Wiktor]

"...Wiktor's a Jekyll-Hyde personality..." - Lycos Music
http://www.miserymadebeautiful.com

[fastlane]

Hi MR. Marker

I liked the visuals with your music. I'm glad to see you are working with IO. I have IO also but I need to really learn how to use it.

I like the concept and direction of the music although it needs some developing and a little smoothing out for the listener.


Phil

[rbowser-]

MrMarker - We haven't heard from you for some time. Several replies here - Hope you're still around. Did you come up with an alternate version, replacing that problem section?

Hope to hear from you!
Randy

[MrMarker]

MrMarker - We haven't heard from you for some time. Several replies here - Hope you're still around. Did you come up with an alternate version, replacing that problem section?

Hope to hear from you!
Randy

Yep, I put a link to the edited version awhile back in my original post. Thanks again for your input, I ended up with a much better piece because of it. Here is the updated version again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXrSubDgaUw

[rbowser-]

Yep, I put a link to the edited version awhile back in my original post. Thanks again for your input, I ended up with a much better piece because of it...

Hi, MrMarker! Thanks for the new post. Probably like most people, I didn't know you'd updated your original post. When we edit a post, no auto-email is sent to people who've previously visited your thread - so there's no way to be aware of an update unless a new post is added to the thread. Next time, I suggest you not only do an edit, but also add a new post noting that there's new material that's been added.

Great! All those "wrong notes" are gone now, and the piece's flowing, peaceful mood isn't disrupted. Good going.

I have a new tech note, easier to correct than the earlier problem. The recording cuts off unnaturally at the end - I think maybe this will be looped for however long it's needed in the film? But for a recording that stands on its own, the ending sounds abrupt. So here's a mixing trick you may want to try sometime:

--We can find a reverb setting that suits a piece, but at the end of the music, there still may not be a sufficient tail, a trailing off of the reverb, which seems proportionate to what we had during the mix.

--The solution is to automate your reverb in one of several ways, so that more reverb is boosted up just in time for the final chord. The result is a ringing out of the sound which takes a wee bit longer to fade out.

--If you're using a reverb plug-in on a Bus, you can just automate the volume level of the bus for that last bit.

--Or you can automate the amount of Send on the instrument(s) being used in the last measure.

--Or you can automate a parameter or two in the plug-in itself, like boosting the "Tail" control for instance.

Congrats on the much improved mix. Hope you don't mind me adding the new tech tip on your thread.

Randy

[Max Hamburg]

Interesting stuff, Mr.Marker!

I'm glad my experiments led you to conducting more investigation, even though it turns out I was re-creating only what I heard on the track, and not what you actually played.

So it's a matter of anomalous overtones after all! I've run into that now and then with tuned percussion, and thought maybe that's what was going on here - but I couldn't re-create it. And I still can't, even after your new post. What we're hearing on the recording might be the result of the Celesta's sound mingling with the other instruments in the track? I'm not sure.

Just now I played your notes in unison octaves, but the ghost notes, F# and G# weren't there, so interaction with the rest of the track seems like it could be the other ingredient causing those notes to be heard.

I did hear, however, that the lowest C isn't in tune with the higher C - the two don't sound very pretty together. There are other notes which aren't too pretty on their own, like the A in the 2nd octave up is very "thunky" and of questionable pitch.

I downloaded your screen capture - it apparently was accidentally truncated, because the only section in the file is where you click on the Cs and the G on ARIA's keyboard. The other sections you mention in your post aren't there - playing the passage as intended, or the slowed down track-

But it really doesn't matter that the .mov file isn't complete - Looks like you've figured out the issue. If you take the bottom notes out, and maybe layer in a Glock, you'll probably be ok.

I want to point out that the F natural and G natural in my staff screen capture, heard in my last clip, is a nice alternative to the C-G-C you were actually playing. That could be one of those "happy accidents" where something musically is accidentally discovered. Maybe you want to try those notes instead of your original phrase to see if you like them!

Randy

Hi Randy

I'm not sure about this, but somewhere I've read that these high pitched percussion instruments exceed out of the normal tonal range (the higher the more) to make them sound more brilliantly. The same would apply for the highest notes on a piano. The whole middle range may be tuned perfectly, the extremes are slightly out of tune. As long as the overtones (and subtones) mingle with the rest, nothing disturbing happens. Still, I remain with one question: How is it possible that harmonics occur in virtual instruments (or does that intuitively happens just in our brain)? Maybe the recording empasizes the 'unnatural' or disturbing overtones... Interesting discussion!

Max

[Max Hamburg]

I was a little surprised when I first listened to the piece. I thought I heard Enya (or Clanad). A very nice composition indeed, without much trickery or fancy elements. Moreover, it started a very interesting topic on harmonics and overtones in high pitched percussion instruments. This could be instructive for all of us!

Max