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Topic: Mod Wheel

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  1. #1

    Mod Wheel

    Hi All - I wonder if anyone could clear up a small point for me, please?

    I have a Yamaha PSR S550 which has just a 'Pitch Bend Wheel'. Is this the same as a 'Mod Wheel'?
    (for varying volume levels when recording straight from the keyboard into REAPER Midi Editor). (piano roll)

    Many thanks

  2. #2

    Re: Mod Wheel

    Quick answer NO. Mod Wheel sends Midi #CC01 data. Sorry but I don't know about the Yamaha PSR S550 You can use any physical controller by reassigning it's output to to contol CC01.
    Fred

  3. #3

    Re: Mod Wheel

    Hi Fred - Thanks very much for the message.

    [QUOTE][/You can use any physical controller by reassigning it's output to to contol CC01.
    QUOTE]

    Does this mean that I can reprogram the 'Pitch Bend Wheel' to control the volume?

  4. #4

    Re: Mod Wheel

    Hello, Joat - I looked online for info on your keyboard. It's an "all in one" kind of keyboard with built-in sounds being its main feature. Unfortunately, it doesn't have a Mod Wheel, and that Pitch Bend wheel is hard-wired to do that one task - bend the pitches of notes.

    Since you're using Reaper, you can draw in MIDI Controller 1 data in the Piano Roll View to control the volume on the GPO instruments.

    Randy

  5. #5

    Re: Mod Wheel

    Hi Randy - Very kind of you to reply, thank you very much.

    When you say I can 'draw in' the control data - I think that is what I have been trying recently - selecting the 'Volume' command & drawing in those green vertical bars in the cc lane. But it is not a very accurate (or easy) way of doing it with the mouse - it doesn't allow for very much finesse or subtlety.
    I have also tried the other method which the 'Weighty Tome' (the Reaper Manual) recommends - creating & shaping envelopes - but this too I find pretty 'clunky'. Very hard to get subtle changes of volume.
    Maybe there is an external controller device I could buy?

  6. #6

    Re: Mod Wheel

    Quote Originally Posted by joat View Post
    ...When you say I can 'draw in' the control data - I think that is what I have been trying recently - selecting the 'Volume' command & drawing in those green vertical bars in the cc lane. But it is not a very accurate (or easy) way of doing it with the mouse - it doesn't allow for very much finesse or subtlety.
    I have also tried the other method which the 'Weighty Tome' (the Reaper Manual) recommends - creating & shaping envelopes - but this too I find pretty 'clunky'. Very hard to get subtle changes of volume.
    Maybe there is an external controller device I could buy?
    Hello again, Joat - Several items to cover here.

    You don't want to choose "Volume" - that's probably CC7. GPO instrument volumes are controlled by CC1 - usually labeled "Modulation."

    I don't use Reaper, I tried a few times, and found everything about it "clunky," sorry to say. I use Sonar, so that's my point of reference.

    You don't want to just insert single CC events, but actually draw curves up and down so the volume fluctuates naturally. It is best to record it, but without a Mod Wheel, drawing is second best.

    In Sonar, with the Snap To Grid off, and holding down the CTRL key, smooth volume changes can be drawn with the mouse.

    Here's something I put together several years ago - a short video demonstrating volume control on a solo violin:

    Fluid Volume Control

    Quite frankly, you don't have the best kind of keyboard for the work you're trying to do with Garritan in Reaper. If you really want to buy a controller, this is the age of the Controller/Keyboard combo. Much nicer to have both the keyboard and control sliders and knobs all on the same unit so you can record things in real time.

    Volume control can be very accurate, very detailed, and effective. I think that video will help. AND it's probably time to look through that weighty Reaper manual, it has to tell you how to draw controllers in - if what I described in Sonar doesn't apply to that program.

    Randy

  7. #7

    Re: Mod Wheel

    Hi Randy - Thank you so much for including the little video, very helpful indeed- I did actually come across it earlier on today when I was looking through previous posts for the answer to this problem - but there didn't seem to be any sound on that version!

    You don't want to choose "Volume" - that's probably CC7. GPO instrument volumes are controlled by CC1 - usually labeled "Modulation."
    Your right Randy, 'Volume' is 07 on Reaper but 01 is 'Mod Wheel' & 'Modulation' doesn't seem to be on the list. The nearest I could find is 'Expression' - (11) which works O.K. In fact it seems to have the same effect as 'Volume' - you draw in the vertical bars in curves & the volume is affected.

    Regarding the keyboard/controllers - just had a quick look on the Net & they seem to range from mini devices costing £40.00 ish up to the £300.00 mark. Are there any you could point me in the direction of please. Thanks for your help Randy.

  8. #8

    Re: Mod Wheel

    Quote Originally Posted by joat View Post
    Hi Randy - Thank you so much for including the little video, very helpful indeed- I did actually come across it earlier on today when I was looking through previous posts for the answer to this problem - but there didn't seem to be any sound on that version!
    Hey wow - You found that very same video? I did do it some years ago in response to a question - wonder why the archived copy doesn't have sound? Hmmm. Well, glad you had a look. Those curves in the controller pane are exactly what you should be able to do in Reaper.
    Quote Originally Posted by joat View Post
    You're right Randy, 'Volume' is 07 on Reaper but 01 is 'Mod Wheel' & 'Modulation' doesn't seem to be on the list. The nearest I could find is 'Expression' - (11) which works O.K. In fact it seems to have the same effect as 'Volume' - you draw in the vertical bars in curves & the volume is affected.
    Mod Wheel is one of the most basic CCs, it has to be there. I started to do a Google search for Reaper info - but of course you should actually do that. Actually, you need to read the manual's section on the PRV. From what I glanced at just now online, it said what I expected, that literally any controller that exists can be worked with in Reaper. In Sonar, there's a drop down menu in the PRV. You just type the number in for the controller you want, and it gets assigned to the designated pane/lane.

    CC11, Expression, does exactly the same volume control with Garritan instruments as CC1. That's the controller I use, because of the requirements of my particular set up. Exactly the same results.

    Quote Originally Posted by joat View Post

    Regarding the keyboard/controllers - just had a quick look on the Net & they seem to range from mini devices costing £40.00 ish up to the £300.00 mark. Are there any you could point me in the direction of please. Thanks for your help Randy.
    The market is teaming with these things, and honestly, they all pretty much do the same thing. You just need velocity sensitive keys, and assignable switches/faders/knobs. If you'd like to stretch out a bit, I think you should get something bigger than a super mini model.

    I use the Roland A-800 Pro - purchased primarily because I liked the idea of using a keyboard that has the name of my software on it - Cakewalk. Here it is at Sweetwater for $400.

    Roland A-800 Pro

    But really, there are many, many choices. Take a look through Sweetwater, doing a search for MIDI Controller Keyboards. Do online searches for reviews and user comments - and take all that info with a grain of salt, since everyone's a critic nowadays, and you'll find online remarks that rips anything apart you care to name.

    Randy

  9. #9

    Re: Mod Wheel

    Hi again & Thanks for all the advice Randy.

    Mod Wheel is one of the most basic CCs, it has to be there.
    Yes, 'Mod Wheel' is 01 on the cc list but no 'Modulation' I'm afraid - but if 'Expression' (11) has the same effect I will use that.

    Your right Randy, 'Volume' is 07 on Reaper but 01 is 'Mod Wheel' & 'Modulation' doesn't seem to be on the list.
    Just a thought - in the interim maybe I could use a 'pen mouse' in place of the standard mouse - that might give me better control in drawing the curves in cc lane.

    you need to read the manual's section on the PRV.
    Sorry Randy - don't know what PRV is. Sorry to be so dense!

  10. #10

    Re: Mod Wheel

    Quote Originally Posted by joat View Post
    ...'Mod Wheel' is 01 on the cc list but no 'Modulation' I'm afraid - but if 'Expression' (11) has the same effect I will use that.
    hehehe, um, isn't it obvious that "Mod Wheel" and "01" are the same as "Modulation" and "1?" You were asking about Mod Wheel in your first post - so, there it is, Mod Wheel in Reaper. Modulation is the controller name - it's usually used to modulate the vibrato of an instrument, but not in GPO. Mod Wheel is just short for Modulation Wheel.

    And yes, CC11, Expression is interchangeable with CC1 for volume control in Garritan - not with most synths, but it is in Garritan.

    And, Reaper can edit ANY MIDI CONTROLLER - Any one you can name, you can edit it there.
    Quote Originally Posted by joat View Post
    Just a thought - in the interim maybe I could use a 'pen mouse' in place of the standard mouse - that might give me better control in drawing the curves in cc lane.
    I've tried that, and it's OK, but all you really need to do is get used to moving the mouse. Sounds like you're too tight with it. Loosen your wrist, look at the screen, hold the left click down and swoop. Really, with practice you'll be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by joat View Post
    Sorry Randy - don't know what PRV is. Sorry to be so dense!
    Piano Roll View - what you brought up in your first post. All programs have a Piano Roll View, and it's generally referred to as PRV. Didn't mean to be unclear.

    Randy

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