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Topic: OT: Vegas dithering question...

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  1. #1

    OT: Vegas dithering question...

    Hi All, I was wondering if one of the fellow Vegas users could answer a question for me...

    By default I set a Vegas project to be WAV, 24 bit.

    When I render, I put either Ozone or the Waves Ultramaximizer+ in the mastering bus and set it to 16 bit dithering.

    The thing is, if I render like this the final output is still 24 bit. Despite the fact that I have an FX set to dither, in the mastering bus.

    If I go in and change the Vegas project properties to 16 bit, I then get a 16 bit file.

    So, am I getting the benefit of the plug-ins proprietary dithering software or the inbuilt Vegas dither?

    It doesnt make sense that I can have a plugin set in the mastering bus and still get 24 bit files.

    Anyone have some ideas?

    Thanks in advance for your help. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: OT: Vegas dithering question...

    Actually that makes perfect sense. Even saving to a 24-bit file is downsampling from Vegas\'s internal 32-bit floating point resolution. So your dithering IS doing something.

    Whether you\'re dithering at the appropriate point is another story. You want to dither down once, preferably, to your final product...ESPECIALLY if you\'re using noise shaping which will come back to haunt you if you start processing the signal again.

  3. #3

    Re: OT: Vegas dithering question...

    Bruce, sorry for being thick but you lost me.

    My project render settings are set to 24 bit, my FX dithering is set to 16 and I still get a 24 bit file.

    My reasoning for setting up the project this way (in 24bit) was that I am first bringing in a multitude of 24 bit tracks to mix. I thought if my project started out at 16 bit, each file might be down-sampled on import? The idea was to mix it all at 24 bit but then render the final stereo master at 16.

    It just seems like the plugin has no effect at all. If I go and set the Vegas render settings to 16 bit I then get a 16 bit file. But this seems to be the result of the render settings, not the plugin.


    What am I missing here?

  4. #4

    Re: OT: Vegas dithering question...

    Scott, do you get the same results if you apply the Waves dither destructively in an audio editor outside of Vegas?

    Maybe you can just do this as the final step.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: OT: Vegas dithering question...

    Originally posted by Scott Cairns:
    Bruce, sorry for being thick but you lost me.

    My project render settings are set to 24 bit, my FX dithering is set to 16 and I still get a 24 bit file.

    My reasoning for setting up the project this way (in 24bit) was that I am first bringing in a multitude of 24 bit tracks to mix. I thought if my project started out at 16 bit, each file might be down-sampled on import? The idea was to mix it all at 24 bit but then render the final stereo master at 16.

    It just seems like the plugin has no effect at all. If I go and set the Vegas render settings to 16 bit I then get a 16 bit file. But this seems to be the result of the render settings, not the plugin.


    What am I missing here?
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Dither settings and file output criteria are completely independant.

    If you were to examing the 24-bit file generated behind the L1, you would find 16-bits of information and zeros beynd that.

    Just set your output in the Render AS dialog to 16-bit, and you will be fine. You do not need to set your entire project to 16-bit...but on the other hand, you would suffer nothing if you did. Vegas is a completely nondestructive environment. It never downsamples anything. The only thing you\'re setting when you set the overall project depth is what depth Vegas will record NEW material (recorded internally rather than dragged into the timeline or media pool).

    Hope that helps clear it up. You\'re fine. The reason you don\'t \"hear\" any difference is because you are using nice tools--there\'s not very much difference to hear.

    ADD: Be sure to turn Vegas\'s dithering tools completely OFF. You don\'t want multiple dither passes...especially with the L1 noise-shaper. Dither should literally be the very last step in your processing chain, and it shouldn\'t be used indiscriminately. Remember, in a nutshell dither ADDS NOISE to MASK GRAIN. Noise shaping sharply equalizes noise into regions where your hearing discernment is not so active. But processing either of these techniques after the fact is the equivalent of pulling out the sandpaper after you\'ve lacqured the furniture. You want to make sure all the sanding is done before you start applying the finish processes.

  6. #6

    Re: OT: Vegas dithering question...

    THanks Bruce that cleard it up.

    I was aware of dithering only once and the whole process involved after reading the excellent Waves guides on the subject. But your comment; \"Remember, in a nutshell dither ADDS NOISE to MASK GRAIN.\" - sums it up nicely.

    Thanks again for your help.

    Marty, thanks for your suggestions too.

    Scott.

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