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Topic: Is there any augmented clusters like that of herrman's Vertigo in GPO

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  1. #1

    Is there any augmented clusters like that of herrman's Vertigo in GPO

    Anyone? Thanks...

  2. #2

    Re: Is there any augmented clusters like that of herrman's Vertigo in GPO

    Well, no - GPO is a Library of individual instruments, each in their appropriate range. To have clusters in a piece, you would play or notate the clusters like anything else, built from individual notes.

    Garritan Instrument Orchestra has some patches of the cluster sort, because the thrust of that Library is to have some group sounds and effects already layered and ready to use as-is in a project.

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: Is there any augmented clusters like that of herrman's Vertigo in Instant ORch

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Well, no - GPO is a Library of individual instruments, each in their appropriate range. To have clusters in a piece, you would play or notate the clusters like anything else, built from individual notes.

    Garritan Instrument Orchestra has some patches of the cluster sort, because the thrust of that Library is to have some group sounds and effects already layered and ready to use as-is in a project.

    Randy
    Sorry Randy i did mean IO..i own it...i thought you might know patch name off top of your head..Thanks though!! corrected

  4. #4

    Re: Is there any augmented clusters like that of herrman's Vertigo in Instant ORch

    Quote Originally Posted by superquartet1 View Post
    Sorry Randy i did mean IO..i own it...i thought you might know patch name off top of your head..Thanks though!! corrected
    Ah, well you need to go on a search and audition sounds - I opened ARIA before responding, found, for instance, under Effects Patches>Orch Cluster - Unison. Pretty sure there are others too.

    Randy

  5. #5

    Re: Is there any augmented clusters like that of herrman's Vertigo in Instant ORch

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Ah, well you need to go on a search and audition sounds - I opened ARIA before responding, found, for instance, under Effects Patches>Orch Cluster - Unison. Pretty sure there are others too.

    Randy
    yes there are quite alot of sounds...you think we can convince them to make a pdf of the orchestrations? like copies of the score arrangements they used for the performances? They would come in handy, is it a copyright thing why developers don't include em? You have to agree that it would make perfect sense no?

    update...actually this would be a mammoth task according to the descriptions i've read in the pdf...

  6. #6

    Re: Is there any augmented clusters like that of herrman's Vertigo in Instant ORch

    Quote Originally Posted by superquartet1 View Post
    yes there are quite alot of sounds...you think we can convince them to make a pdf of the orchestrations? like copies of the score arrangements they used for the performances? They would come in handy, is it a copyright thing why developers don't include em? You have to agree that it would make perfect sense no?

    update...actually this would be a mammoth task according to the descriptions i've read in the pdf...
    Yeah, well those aren't really "orchestrations" - IO has layers and things, chords and effects. It's really instant gratification for people putting together recording projects, but not so useful for notation users who insist on getting every note of music written down. Clusters are so easy to do though, and you'd have more control coming up with your own - Just hit a bunch of notes at the same time, 1/2 step neighbors, Bonk!--instant cluster.

    Randy

  7. #7

    Re: Is there any augmented clusters like that of herrman's Vertigo in Instant ORch

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Yeah, well those aren't really "orchestrations" - IO has layers and things, chords and effects. It's really instant gratification for people putting together recording projects, but not so useful for notation users who insist on getting every note of music written down. Clusters are so easy to do though, and you'd have more control coming up with your own - Just hit a bunch of notes at the same time, 1/2 step neighbors, Bonk!--instant cluster.

    Randy
    hehe perhaps i'll throw the cat on the keyboard and hit record.!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Frank D's Avatar
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    Re: Is there any augmented clusters like that of herrman's Vertigo in GPO

    Hi SQ ...

    I know you were just having some good fun with the 'cat-on-the-keyboard' comment, but why not try and create your clusters in a more musical fashion?

    Experiment! Clusters can have a variety of intervals in them; minor seconds, major seconds, augmented seconds, etc. You get to control the intensity and tension by playing with these intervals; a chord of clusters doesn't have to contain just one type of interval.

    Also, don't just think of a chord of cluster as only a vertical structure; think of how the notes move from the previous chord into the cluster, and then, onto the following chord. Even if it's a series of clustered chords, how the notes (or lines) move from structure to structure is as just as important as the actual chords.

    But have fun with this ... Be creative; try lots of different combos and hear what sounds best to you. Where's the fun in pushing a button to get a stock, canned chord?

    Lastly, if you are getting into Herrmann, are you familiar with his famous "Hitchcock Chord" (as it's become to be known by)? He uses it in a lot of scores (including "Vertigo" and "Psycho") and it's a very effective tension device. It's a minor-Major seventh chord. In scale tones, it's a 1-b3-5-7 (NOT the b7 (or minor 7th), but the Major 7th). In the key of C, it would be a Cm(Ma7) ... or, C-Eb-G-B.

    Play it on a keyboard ... interesting sound, right? Why is it so unique? It's ambiguous ... is it a minor or major chord? It has the b3 to say "I'm minor' ... but also has that Major 7th ... normally only used in major chords. Maybe these are the intervals you're hearing in your cluster chords ... like I say, experiment!!

    Good luck and let us know what you come up with!

    Frank

  9. #9

    Re: Is there any augmented clusters like that of herrman's Vertigo in GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank D View Post
    Hi SQ ...

    I know you were just having some good fun with the 'cat-on-the-keyboard' comment, but why not try and create your clusters in a more musical fashion?

    Experiment! Clusters can have a variety of intervals in them; minor seconds, major seconds, augmented seconds, etc. You get to control the intensity and tension by playing with these intervals; a chord of clusters doesn't have to contain just one type of interval.

    Also, don't just think of a chord of cluster as only a vertical structure; think of how the notes move from the previous chord into the cluster, and then, onto the following chord. Even if it's a series of clustered chords, how the notes (or lines) move from structure to structure is as just as important as the actual chords.

    But have fun with this ... Be creative; try lots of different combos and hear what sounds best to you. Where's the fun in pushing a button to get a stock, canned chord?

    Lastly, if you are getting into Herrmann, are you familiar with his famous "Hitchcock Chord" (as it's become to be known by)? He uses it in a lot of scores (including "Vertigo" and "Psycho") and it's a very effective tension device. It's a minor-Major seventh chord. In scale tones, it's a 1-b3-5-7 (NOT the b7 (or minor 7th), but the Major 7th). In the key of C, it would be a Cm(Ma7) ... or, C-Eb-G-B.

    Play it on a keyboard ... interesting sound, right? Why is it so unique? It's ambiguous ... is it a minor or major chord? It has the b3 to say "I'm minor' ... but also has that Major 7th ... normally only used in major chords. Maybe these are the intervals you're hearing in your cluster chords ... like I say, experiment!!

    Good luck and let us know what you come up with!

    Frank
    Thanks Frank, i totally agree, i do hear the chords in my head and aware of the stacked major/minor tonalities..if i 'hear' them...it's been while since i studied music theory...and i can imagine what i would ask the teacher today if i was still at college
    A long time ago i could harmonize a unfinished 4 part Bach chorale for an exam without an instrument.
    Now i feel i know nothing...but my ears are fine.
    I think it maybe a good idea to do some revision again! Maybe lessons.

    Thanks for the advice.!

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