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Topic: GSIF LIMITATIONS?

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  1. #1

    GSIF LIMITATIONS?

    Has anyone out there been able to successfully record vocals using one input of a GSIF soundcard while playing Giga tracks on one of the other soundcard outputs.
    I have Giga 1.61, PIII600 Coppermine, 256 Meg of ram, Abit BE6II motherboard, Maxtor 20 Gig Diamondmax plus 40 for Giga and a W. Digital Expert 18 Gig for Cakewalk 9.03. When I try to record vocals while playing Giga tracks all kinds of crazy things happen.
    Perhaps it will be best for me to convert all Giga tracks to wave form before recording audio tracks. Perhaps there is a limit to GSIF or maybe it is a problem with this Delta 1010 soundcaard. Hmmm?

  2. #2
    Senior Member LHong's Avatar
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    Re: GSIF LIMITATIONS?

    ============================================
    Has anyone out there been able to successfully record vocals using one input of a GSIF soundcard while playing Giga tracks on one of the other soundcard outputs.
    =============================================
    Of course not, because you try to corporate the GIGA invironment in two difference soundcards (Voval & background). This means your CPU must works harder. The problems that you have are Huge of latency, no One advise you to do that whether realtime recording or just mixing. It\'s PCI-latency, no One could avoid it! (Even I\'m not mentioning about synchronization yet! just enough to say)

    ============================================
    ...for Cakewalk 9.03. When I try to record vocals while playing Giga tracks all kinds of crazy things happen.
    Perhaps it will be best for me to convert all Giga tracks to wave form before recording audio tracks. Perhaps there is a limit to GSIF or maybe it is a problem with this Delta 1010 soundcaard. Hmmm?
    ===========================================
    Nothing to do with GIGA or soundcard, that is the way how they should work. GSIF just a driver for the GIGA, if you want to run them all at realtime recording (Vocal+Giga) you will need a lot faster CPU-System that you have now. Look, Everyone here are having a hard time to fine-tune the sound quality and now you want to do more! How your Giga now? don\'t you have enough fun to optimize your PC yet? Just a Joke!
    Cakewalk should handles some kind of things like this very well, don\'t forget your vocal need to be sync. with your waves (backgraound) as well. Does GIGA provide it?
    And that why Cakewalk/Cubsae/Logic are in business.
    LHong


  3. #3

    Re: GSIF LIMITATIONS?

    I have to disagree with you on this one. I just got through recording some nice vocal tracks with Cakewalk and all of my midi tracks are most of my midi tracks are Gigasampler not Gigastudio. I even ran a C1+ compressor gate plugin along with reverb in real time and the results were beautiful. My problems before were caused by failing to read the manual for my soundcard. I am not having any trouble with the Delta 1010 driver now. Peace.

  4. #4
    Senior Member LHong's Avatar
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    Re: GSIF LIMITATIONS?

    NAZARU,
    Good to hear it works for you!
    Just a style, my opinion is when I record a vocal track or a analog signal, I would disable verything which are not related to the audio-recording, And when I\'m using the MIDI-Audio-Seq to record it, why do I need the Giga?
    Since I\'ve known my Giga would be using extremely CPU-power, How do I know it\'s caused any interupted while I\'m recording or not? How about the noise? maybe not a matter if I\'m recording a digital signal! how about synchronization? I will have the recorded-track of delay signal from the source if there is a huge latency! If I listen it carefully with the drum beat might be I can catch it sometimes.
    Well, it depends on the signal quality you are looking for, maybe you could have some experiments with and without Giga then you could see the differences. (maybe not?)
    LHong



  5. #5

    Re: GSIF LIMITATIONS?

    I\'m sure it would be better to disable everything when recording audio if at all possible simply because the cpu would be able to concentrate on the task at hand. I agree. I think I am going to stick with Gigasampler as opposed to Gigastudio because I\'ve only begun to scratch the surface of this software and I am not doing a lot of orchestration like some of the guys on this forum. Gigasampler suits my needs just fine. Hopefully, Nemesys will continue to improve Gigasampler especially it terms of the instrument editor etc. and not abandon it.

  6. #6

    Re: GSIF LIMITATIONS?

    For what it\'s worth I have been able to record mutiple audio tracks with Gigastudio playing. Granted I usualy only run 5-6 instruments including Will Lee basses, the Steinway B and Bob clearmountain\'s drums. I was also using some effects in both CW and Giga. This was on my Celeron 400 OC\'d @ 500.
    I just upgraded to a Celery 566@ 850. Ran 16 tracks of audio and 16 tracks of Giga. 10 effects in CW including compression,and multiple reverbs, 6 effects in Giga. Looped the whole thing 4 hours and never broke 40Deg. I ran out of time or I would have tried some other experaments.

  7. #7
    Senior Member LHong's Avatar
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    Re: GSIF LIMITATIONS?

    Thanks ken, please read this:

    NAZARU wrote:
    ============================================
    Has anyone out there been able to successfully record vocals using one input of a GSIF soundcard while playing Giga tracks on one of the other soundcard outputs.
    =============================================
    If you have read this original messages form NAZARU carefuly, you should know what we are talking about! For me I realize that to record a vocal track is painfuler than just record a MIDI track or a real instrument.
    And We all know that! how long does it take to complete a recorded-vocal track? who knows this answer? is the singer living in your studio? Why making our life so difficult than what it suppose to be! it\'s explained that what it\'s worth.
    Just enough to say,
    LHong

    Ken wrote:
    ============================================
    For what it\'s worth I have been able to record mutiple audio tracks with Gigastudio playing. Granted I usualy only run 5-6 instruments including Will Lee basses, the Steinway B and Bob clearmountain\'s drums. I was also using some effects in both CW and Giga. This was on my Celeron 400 OC\'d @ 500.
    ===========================================


  8. #8

    Re: GSIF LIMITATIONS?

    I believe I did understand the question. He asked:

    \"Has anyone out there been able to successfully record vocals using one input of a GSIF soundcard while
    playing Giga tracks on one of the other soundcard outputs.\"

    You told him no, \"Of course not\" You went on to explain his lack of computer power and insurmountable latency issues.

    I told him yes because he can. I do it with a very similar setup. (As he pointed out in his next post, he can do it also after finding the answer in the manual)

    Lots of us do it all the time. All of us must have the new audio in sync, (be it vocals or not). Most of the multi client capable sound cards I know of have a provision for monitoring the input in order to address the latency problem.

  9. #9
    Senior Member LHong's Avatar
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    Re: GSIF LIMITATIONS?

    As I\'ve posted earlier, I did mention this:
    ============================================
    \"The problems that you have are Huge of latency, no One advise you to do that whether realtime recording or just mixing. It\'s PCI-latency, no One could avoid it!\"
    ============================================
    What I\'d like to say here is not only relate to this topic, maybe you can find something helpful for you. Anyone here who are using the multiple soundcards within one system or using USB-MIDI PORTshould double check it. Whether you have any problems or not but at least you should know what you are doing. I\'m thinking that even Nemesy still wouldn\'t recomend it either. There are many kind of latencies, most of those you\'ve seen are driver\'s latency such as GSIF latency, ASIO lattency, etc, but not many people mentioned about PCI LATENCY. What and how is a PCI latency would be described as follows:

    What is a PCI latency?
    I\'m not sure to have the good way to describe it very well. I just try my best.
    Well, When you have two soundcards which are physical plugged-in the same PCI BUS, they are assigned two different IRQs \"Interupt Request\" and different base address which you have seen in the windows setup. Do you know what is happing when both of two soundcards are being accessed the PCI BUS at same time? The way of two soundcards work is that they must send the IRQ signals to the PCI BUS during the playing and recording process. Therefore, in order to avoid the conflicted-IRQ, the PCI chipset controller must serves only one IRQ at a time (to the CPU) by the control-logic is called PCI Arbitration logic (Priority controller). What it does, to serve the first IRQ while holding the second IRQ certainly amount of times that we call PCI LATENCY (time delay). And that why SHARED-IRQ or CONFLICTED-IRQ are not recommended.

    How is a PCI latency?
    As far as I know the latency in the PCI BUS about 10~100ms based-on 33Mhz PCI clock (it depends on what chipset you have) which is about 1/10 of second in the worse case. Don\'t forget that the Nemesy had to deal with latency in a few mili-seconds for the GSIF/ASIO/MME driver and now you are adding a huge latency to it. You could have very simple sequencer which having same drum pattern (tempo about 100) and assign it into two diferent soundcards. When you listen to drum beats carefully you might hear its out-of-syncs easily. This maybe works with certain chipsets and mother-boards (even depends on soundcards) if somehow they can reduce it to minimum, about 1/100 second but no One really cares much since the PC is not special design for our Digital-Recording-Studio.

    PCI-TO-USB latency:
    Don\'t forget the USB-MIDI-PORT is still might not be recommended in the realtime recording either because USB also use the PCI BUS and sending the IRQ in this period time (from PCI to USB chipset). So in this case who are currently using the USB port for MIDI controller should make a note of it, sometime it becomes a serious problem which would be caused MASTER PCI OVER FLOW. I think many of you have seen this problem before, right?

    PCI-SCSI latency:
    There is also another latency in PCI-SCSI-Controller here, but it is very low latency because it is designed in fast transfer data rate about 40/80/160MB per seconds by on board built-in huge of memory buffers (sound card doesn\'t have this feature).

    Overall, I can see to setup a recording studio with PC-based-system is not easy and simple way, is it? no One knows everything and that why you and I have also learned a lot of tricks and tips from the forum. Of cource some of you here might knows better than what I\'m talking about and maybe someone still doesn\'t realize what is right or what is wrong and even have many problems which have never been solved yet. What it\'s worth, maybe other two cents and that also maybe we had to learn it by hard ways.
    Regards,
    LHong



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