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Topic: User review: Vintaudio Ultimate Yamaha C7

  1. #1

    User review: Vintaudio Ultimate Yamaha C7

    Man was I happy when I saw the post regarding this release! My order was placed within an hour of Franky\'s original post. The demos sounded magical & the three position concept a groundbreaker (I think.?.?). Being almost exclusively a Yamaha piano player, from my solo piano CDs to my P120 for gigs, this is what I\'ve been waiting for in Giga from the day I packed the Gigapiano disc deep into storage. This is not to say I do not enjoy playing other pianos, as I have a 6\' Kawai grand, and play Worra\'s SG88 & Michiels\' Bos with delight.

    Well I watched for the mailman & received a timely delivery from Vintaudio. I bolted to the studio & began the load. A bit frustrating & time consuming this was, after copying all the files to the drive, then extracting them to the \"D\" drive, an hour had passed. Growing slightly impatient, (that\'s the Italian in me) I attempted to load the \"close-miked\" performance, with zero results. A quick call to Franky & I learned that the many performances he had programmed (full, economy, mod-filter, w/release etc.) were not accessible in GS 96, only for 160... bummer. He talked me throught the process of loading the pedal down gigs into port 1 & the pedal up Gigs into port 2 for all three positions. Release layer Gig? Not for me... only two ports in GS 96...real bummer. Franky plans to update his site & state clearly that the library is native to GS 160. He also plans on putting each of the three perspectives on their own 2 CD set so one can choose a particular perspective to put on a drive, whereas I had no choice but to put all 3, (11 gigs) on my drive. At this point I felt a bit like I was a Beta-tester (who paid). On to the sounds & playability!

    This is where I was able to leave all (well, most) of my frustrations behind. In a nutshell, the MP3 demos we\'ve all heard do not do the sound justice. The recordings are impeccable. This must be one awesome instrument. Delicate & warm in the soft velocities, & opening up, & down right \"singing\" when you start to lay into it. No overwhelming ringing sounds, voiced in the specific way that allows you to get the abolute most, dynamically, out of the piano. Unbelievably clear & open.

    The close miked being the first I played. Big & full, no noise, VERY WIDE stereo spread, surprisingly with no \"whole in the middle\" effect! I had to pull the right side in about 30% to balance the spectrum to my taste. I started playing a little Jim Brickman & felt as though I was at his piano,(which I have played). This sound would need to be the featured sound in a \"not too busy\" mix, if used that way. Playability is good, needed a bit of tweaking to my taste. The quietest layer, to my ears, is a bit bright, tonally. I yearned for yet one more softer layer in pp range. The transitions were pretty solid & smooth, especially considering the enormous dynamic range of the C7. This perspective took very well to slight EQ & multi-band compression (via a finalizer) & very well to an assortment of reverbs. Sure would like to be able to tell you what the release layer added. No can do...

    The next to load was the ambient perspective. This sound is a solo piano player\'s UTOPIA. There is an abundance of delicacy & warmth here, & the touch (layers etc) is nearly perfect. The space between the instrument & the mics helps mask the layer splits beautifully. It sounds as though it is miked 6 feet or so from above, yet still retains a noticable stereo spread, bass to left, treble to the right. It was obviously recorded in an acoustically tight studio. There is really no room reverb or sound, just \"luscious air\". I was able to play with an assortment of reverbs to create the room/hall sound I desired, unlike some other libraries \"ambient perspectives\" that have reflections bouncing off walls. This sound is surprising warm & rich in the low-mids. I added a touch of sparkle to the high end to give even more \"air\". I noticed a little more distance (air) between the mics & the piano at the higher registers, not to a flaw, just a little \"character spot\". Classical pianists will surprisingly appreciate this \"ambient\" perspective. Though it opens up \"bright\", it does not get away from you at all in the treble as you might expect from a Yamaha. Franky would be well suited to post some classical demos utilizing this perpective. Sure would like to be able to tell you what the release layer added... no can do.

    Finally the Player perpective. This one is your \"pop\" sound, sitting sweetly in a busy mix. With playability very much in the vein of the \"close-miked\" set, the transitions were smooth & dynamics wide. The stereo spread is much tighter on this perspective. The mids & highs are focused upon more, without the deep/rich bass of the close perspective, yet not lacking. This sound didn\'t call for much eq as I rolled into a busy pop mix AKA Michael W Smith, with drums, guitars, string pads, lead & backing vocals. I invision this working quite well in an acoustic jazz ensemle. This is a natural piano sound, not designed to be huge or ambient. very well done.

    All three of these perspectives will undoubetdly get much use, as great time & detail were put into each. Neither is weaker, nor stronger. The tuning is consistant & never an issue. There are no noise issues, just first class recordings of an awesome instrument. Franky may have been a little excited to release this library, as there were quirks from my user\'s end, but his work shines. This is what I originally bought Giga for & now I have it! Thanks Franky

  2. #2

    Re: User review: Vintaudio Ultimate Yamaha C7

    Wow, very nice review there Joe.
    You hit it almost on the money with your assessment of microphone placements for the Ambient layer, it\'s 6 feet by about 6 1/2 feet in height. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    One thing that I think is very important to mention is the fact a new version of the library with some tweaks, seperate cds so you can install 1 instrument at a time HAS already been sent to everyone who initially bought the library on the first 2 days of it being released and all initial purchasers of the library have been informed of this for a few days now, the library now comes in 48khz format on 6 cds, 2 cds for each instrument.

    Also the site has already been updated to include specific Hardware specifications for each format of this library, this is truely a Gigastudio 160 Native library.

    Thank you for taking the time to do this review Joe, very well written, much better than I could ever express myself with my poor self taught English. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Vintaudio Prod.

  3. #3

    Re: User review: Vintaudio Ultimate Yamaha C7

    Great review. Congratulations!

    Anytime line on the release of the Kontakt version?


  4. #4

    Re: User review: Vintaudio Ultimate Yamaha C7


    I noticed that the 24 bit version of your C7 library is sampled at 48Khz. Why? That means that in order to record for a CD, it will need to be downsampled to 44.1 which could spoil the great sound you have worked so hard to achieve. Is the Giga 16 bit version also at 48?

    I know that with two machines and two high quality soundcards, you could do an analog transfer, but it seems a shame to add an a/d, d/a conversion.

    I am acutely aware of this issue right now, because I just did a mastering job for someone who had recorded half of his songs at 48Khz. I ended up doing an analog transfer from my Mona Laptop to my DAW to change the sample rate. It sounded noticeably better than resampling in Sound Forge which lost a lot of the high end.

    -- Martin

  5. #5

    Re: User review: Vintaudio Ultimate Yamaha C7

    HI Martin, why ? because it sounds better [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    Michiel\'s new library will be in 96khz or higher I beleive and you\'ll see many new libraries popping up with higher sample rates because they do sound better.

    Our Giga version of the library is also in 48khz,
    honestly Personally I do think recording at higher sample rates is the way to go,I do not personally think downsampling is such a big deal to put on cd granted you have the right tools, The first version of the library I did was downsampled to 44khz, this is the version Joe reviewed, it does not sound any worse or better than a library sampled at 44khz, when I did do the Halion 24 bit 48khz version of the library I noticed 48khz does sound better than 44khz enough so I reedited the whole Giga version to put it in 48khz.

    Martin ( or anyone else would want to continue this discussion), this is a interesting topic, lets start a new thread on the subject and not drive this one off the road [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    Vintaudio Prod.

  6. #6

    Re: User review: Vintaudio Ultimate Yamaha C7

    Franky-we really need some clarification on this-I use Gigastudio and Halion between two machines and like to record through \"audio export\" in Cubase SX from Halion, especially the Bardstown 24bit Bose and Scarbee 24bit Rhodes.

    My main question would be whether or not I have to change the sampling rate of my SX song(which I usually set to 32bit/44.1)to 48Khz. to accomodate your Yamaha or can I play it in Halion along with my 44.1 samples and simply export it as a 44.1 file, the whole time keeping the song\'s sample rate at 44.1?

    If the Yamaha can\'t be played in Halion at the same time as 44.1 samples, that would not only be a major inconvenience, but a real showstopper. Maybe I just don\'t understand how Halion works, but I did study the manual, and only saw that it could play samples of any rate, but I missed any reference to it being able to simultaneouly play samples of mixed rates.

    Thanks.......Roger W. Barnes

  7. #7

    Re: User review: Vintaudio Ultimate Yamaha C7

    You do not have to change the sampling rate of your SX song to accomodate the libray, Halion takes care of that on it\'s own.

    Quote : \"can I play it in Halion along with my 44.1 samples and simply export it as a 44.1 file, the whole time keeping the song\'s sample rate at 44.1?\"

    Answer : yes you can not a problem

    This is also true with Giga, you do not have to change the sample rate in Giga to 48khz, just leave it at 44Khz.

    My pleasure Roger,
    Vintaudio Prod.

  8. #8

    Re: User review: Vintaudio Ultimate Yamaha C7

    Frankie, you keep touting this 48k sampling rate as if it were a good thing. What about the distortion caused by an unequal conversion to audio\'s 44.1? You can\'t claim that there is none, there is, it\'s a fact. Converting evenly down from 88.2 to 41.1, or starting at 44.1, is better and the way knowledgeable recorders do it. There is no way I would purchase a 48k sample, it\'s asking for trouble.

    Frankie\'s C7 does sound like a Yamaha. Because of the affordability of a Yamaha, this is the piano found in most studios and so of course is the sound that we just naturally associate with recorded music. It\'s a sound we\'ve learned, not chosen. If you heard the same recorded music with a Steinway or a Bosendorfer, you\'d prefer that to the Yamaha\'s thin metallic sound.

  9. #9

    Re: User review: Vintaudio Ultimate Yamaha C7

    Wow, well first off you obviously don\'t like the Yamaha piano that\'s pretty obvious and you have absolutly nothing positive or constructive to add to this thread or do you ?. I happen to like the Yamaha Grand Pianos and alot of people agree with me, not just because they\'ve heard it on every \"recording\", or because they\'re in \"every studio\" and they\'re \"cheap\" but because they are knowledgable about grand pianos and that particular sound suits their needs for the style of music they play....
    Do not presume all of us that like Yamaha pianos are \"grand Piano Idiots\", I actually have played on a lot of Steinways and Bosendorfers and love each piano\'s unique sound and character,these characteristics also apply to Yamahas, to say otherwise is just elitist bs...
    Saying that if we heard the same music played on a Steinway we\'d prefer the Steinway all the time is ridiculous, thin and metallic sounding is how YOU describe the piano, that\'s a personal opinion not fact, a Yamaha can sound very warm and smooth also... you sayin rock and roll and pop sound better on a Steinway, you got to be kidding...., The Steinway and Bosendorfer pianos sound gorgeous but not for everything....
    Michiel Post\'s new Giga library is going to be in 48khz, you saying he\'s wrong for doing it in 48khz too ? His current Grandioso PMI Bosendorfer Piano library is in 48 Khz, why weren\'t you in his thread saying how 48khz audio sucks and you\'d never buy a 48Khz library, I guess you missed that one... The downsampled 44khz version of our piano does NOT sound badly when downsampled in 44 Khz, there\'s just a bit more detail in the 48 Khz version, downsampling it to 44Khz does not make it sound bad or distorted in any way as this review was done with the 44khz downsampled version and he loved it as I do and many others will of course these people actually LIKE Yamahas in the first place so I guess they got a head start on you.....
    And yes I\'m a \"knowledgable\" recorder, thanks for adding that to the list of nice things in your post....
    All the demos that have received nothing but praise form developers and users alike in this forum and others were done with the \"downsampled\" version, you hear any distortion in there, anyone ?
    Really positive post you got there, the kind that make this forum shine doesn\'t it...

    Vintaudio Prod.

  10. #10

    Re: User review: Vintaudio Ultimate Yamaha C7

    You tell him Franky! I wondered who \"whizzed\" in his cornflakes this morning, sheesh! I was raised with a concert Steinway \"B\" in my home. I have played several Bosendorfer models, they are all wonderful. It\'s a matter of taste, not cost or availability. If someone came to me right now & send they\'d buy me any piano in the world, it\'d be a Yamaha, either a C7 or S6. I love how they play, & I love how they sound more than any other piano out there...period. Why do you choose to knock Yamaha, Maxwell, when they are the studio standard & the sound most people are familiar with? I think that is great accomplishment, not something to begrudge them for. Go back to bed dude, you need a nap! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

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