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Topic: The future of demo samples?

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  1. #1

    The future of demo samples?

    I\'d like to find out what people think about this new trend of releasing demo samples, where it\'s going, and any possible drawbacks. I recently asked a sample developer for a demo .gig, and my request was refused, to my surprise. Are they really not interested in my business? Are we yet in a position where we can realistically say \"Hey, your library costs $XXX, I want to see how it feels to play it, otherwise I\'m not buying,\" or is that having too high an expectation this early in the game? Or perhaps I was being ridiculous and expecting too much in asking for a demo sample to play around with to get a feel for how the samples perform? (PS: I did ask nicely, by the way) [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    The only reason I can think of why a developer would balk at releasing demo samples is because they can be edited to stretch the key regions, and hence they become slightly usable. But how usable is that? Not very. GigaStudio 3.0 should allow creating .gig files that are not editable, that would be a cool feature for creating demo samples.

    Anyway, I think at the very least, sample developers should stop releasing demo mp3s that include all kinds of other instruments--if I\'m looking at buying a woodwind library, for example, I don\'t want to hear drums and strings mixed in there. Maarten\'s approach is absolutely perfect. I want to hear each instrument, totally solo, performing different articulations, and I don\'t think this is asking too much.

    Just my two cents.

    EDIT: even a cooler idea for demo mp3s.. on the web page for the product, actually list the complete sample list as you would see it in GigaStudio (or whatever sampler), with each item being a link to an mp3 demonstrating how that particular instrument/articulation sounds. Sure, lots of work for the sample developers.. but lots of very happy customers who get a really great idea of what the library sounds like.

  2. #2

    Re: The future of demo samples?

    No, I do not think your request is being unreasonable at all. In fact, I believe that if a developer doesn\'t have time for the end user, then why the h311 is he creating the library in the first place (Note: this doesn\'t include Miroslav)? We pay sdam good money for these libraries and to be brushed off for just a snipet of what it feels like to use the library leaves a mark.

    How would you feel if banks didn\'t give out interest rates on CDs, IRAs, or mutual funds? You just had to hand over the money and take whatever rate they decided to stick you with, without knowing the rate beforehand? Essentially, that is what it seems like is happening here (to myself at least). We\'re just supposed to give you our money and \'hope\' for the best? Sorry, that doesn\'t work for me.

    Yes, there are demos, but not many developers like to show the \'bare nakedness\' of their samples. If you have to cover the sound with other instruments or a heavy reverb that says something about the library in a nutshell. If you can\'t let us hear the bare sound of the sample, does that mean you\'re embarrassed of your *own* product?

  3. #3

    Re: The future of demo samples?

    When listening to the music demo (SAM Trombones,the first one, the PREVIEW)I thought:
    Wait a minute, this is really something else. But
    then again, this composer might be really clever.
    After downloading the demo samples I was actually convinced. I can do this too!!!
    1,2 or 3 notes of something good makes me wanting
    more... and more. If it\'s not so good and I was the samplist in charge, I would hesitate giving my samples away for a testride.That would make them concrete proof of my not so good job.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: The future of demo samples?

    Originally posted by MDesigner:
    GigaStudio 3.0 should allow creating .gig files that are not editable, that would be a cool feature for creating demo samples.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">As well as for creating libraries you can\'t edit. Thank god that apparently won\'t happen.

    But Sam, I agree with you that demo GIG files are a very good idea. I am extremely surprised that a serious inquiry from you didn\'t get the desired response. I don\'t think you should reveal the developer\'s name here, though, that would be a foul ball (you don\'t seem inclined to do so...you operate very ethically according to my observation).

    The only case where I could see a demo-GIG as being detrimental to the developer is in the case of an instrument which is very range-bound, where in essence, giving away the demo is giving away the farm. Some instruments would definitely qualify for that level of apprehension on a developer\'s part.

    But on the other hand, even three or four notes, spread sufficiently to make stretching very unmusical, should not bring a developer to harm, yet SHOULD allow the user to check a number of things out--the recording quality, noise floor, professionalism of mapping and editing, etc., would be revealed, as well as the basic quality of performance across the instrument\'s range.

    The only other downside to a \"demo GIG\" would be in the case of a library so small as to make this a no-return investment for the producer. It\'s not a big problem for Herb to give away a full CD of GIG files, because his product stretches across twenty-something DVDs. A person with the VSL demo has maybe 1/10th of 1% of the library to work with. If the library is a 1.5 octave pan flute sample, on the other hand, two or three samples could be a usable instrument for someone, and could negate serious sales.

    Hopefully, you will get some resolution. If it\'s a library you think I might have heard or used, I could potentially give you a private recommendation without making the developer\'s name public. I think that would serve no useful purpose except to spark the typical outpouring of virtual bile.

    Personally, I think one of the most useful demos a developer could make is to open up a microphone, sit at the keybaord, and just doodle while explaining what the patch is, what it does, demonstrate any controller features, etc. I know that when I demo libraries live here in my studio, people are more informed by hearing that kind of demo from me than they are from hearing a nicely produced piece. The nicely produced piece has an importnat role--it demonstrates the potential. The \"narrative plink-through\" demonstrates what will be required to get from point a to point b, which is another very big question in the mind of a potential buyer.

  5. #5

    Re: The future of demo samples?

    Bruce,

    True, it would be possible to lock libraries from editing. But I think most reputable developers would not do that. If we\'re paying money for these sounds, we do have a right to tweak them to fit our needs.

  6. #6

    Re: The future of demo samples?

    \"I don\'t think you should reveal the developer\'s name here, though, that would be a foul ball\"

    Oh c\'mon. If we buy a bad car or get a raw deal at a restuarant we pass on the information to our friends and john q public. I\'m tired of \"consumers\" in this forum thinking it\'s ethically wrong to post their comments good or bad about their bussiness relations with a sample developer. Now days more than ever with sample libraries costing a fairly large investment of time and money, customer relations before and after the sale could be just as important as the samples/intruments themselves.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: The future of demo samples?

    Originally posted by Munsie:
    Oh c\'mon. If we buy a bad car or get a raw deal at a restuarant we pass on the information to our friends and john q public. I\'m tired of \"consumers\" in this forum thinking it\'s ethically wrong to post their comments good or bad about their bussiness relations with a sample developer. Now days more than ever with sample libraries costing a fairly large investment of time and money, customer relations before and after the sale could be just as important as the samples/intruments themselves.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">There could be many very valid reasons a particular library type would be a bad match with a demo-gig. In fact, Sam and I corresponded privately and he had good reasons for not revealing the company--which I respect. Some of the reasons are personal for him. That has to be respected, right? I think so.

    And the company is one that is universally accepted and admired as a great provider of content and service, so there\'s no smoking gun hidden here. They just don\'t happen to provide GIG files for demos...lots of providers don\'t. I\'m going to see if I can encourage it, since I have a relationship with the company--but certain aspects of their product line would definitely be risky as demo-gigs due to the \"useful range\" of some instruments. Why open up a bunch of silly nattering over a non-issue? Who wins there?

    Diplomacy is alive and well...at least in sample-ville.

  8. #8

    Re: The future of demo samples?

    Confined demo samples are a great sales concept that all developers should pursue. I bought the complete VSL primarily on the strength of the Demo Cube. While mp3 demos are nice, one never knows how much skill, time and additional technology were leveraged to make them sound as good as they do.

    I wonder about a demo set for libraries like EWQLSO. Would this not be palitable to those developers since they would have to give you their entire sample player engine along with the demo samples (if I understand their product correctly)?

  9. #9

    Re: The future of demo samples?

    CSduke, Culture has a Dloadable Demo, its running off the same engine as QLSO (different interface). Should be totally possible, and will be done from the likes of it, according to Doug.

    (best way to go IMO)

    Demo gigs are a tough thing IMO. With something like Scarbee\'s Bass I think it would be hard to get the jist of what the library can do. You need both MP3 demos (solo and mixed) and then a demo gig.

    I also like to see what Scarbee and VSL are doing and what GOs will start doing, MIDI tutorials/demos

    Stuff that allow you to learn how they did the demos, or how to use the lib. It\'s even more awesome when you can Dload the stuff without being a user to see the MIDI stuff. You may not understand it all, but it helps you understand what goes into making the resulting MP3s, which can go along way into telling you how difficult it is to use a library, or get results.

  10. #10

    Re: The future of demo samples?

    Originally posted by Munsie:
    \"I don\'t think you should reveal the developer\'s name here, though, that would be a foul ball\"

    Oh c\'mon. If we buy a bad car or get a raw deal at a restuarant we pass on the information to our friends and john q public. I\'m tired of \"consumers\" in this forum thinking it\'s ethically wrong to post their comments good or bad about their bussiness relations with a sample developer. Now days more than ever with sample libraries costing a fairly large investment of time and money, customer relations before and after the sale could be just as important as the samples/intruments themselves.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">You\'re comparing apples to monkeys. I can run around saying that Taco Bell sucks, and it will have none of the repercussions that might occur if you post saying that (insert sample developer) sucks. It\'s just not on a personal level. Restaurants, oil change places, etc., are corporations. There\'s no bridge to burn, there\'s no hard-working individual pulling repeated all-nighters only to read on the forum that \"Hey, Mega Giga Samples didn\'t give me a demo sample!\" It makes me look like a whiner and a whistle-blower, and it might tarnish their reputation unnecessarily. Respect and maturity must be exercised, I feel--and in return there is only respect to be gained.

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