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Topic: Reverb settings in Finale

  1. #1

    Reverb settings in Finale

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/81026636/A Magical Journey.wav

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/81026636/To Hollywood.wav

    I've been experimenting with the Ambience reverb in Finale and I think I've found the settings I like for a full symphonic orchestration. Here are some examples from two pieces I wrote earlier this year. For anyone interested, I used the default Concert Hall 1 and changed some of those settings. Under Decay I changed Time to 2207 and Diffusion to 65%. Under EQ I changed the Bass Freq to 42Hz and Gain to 3.8. Under Shape I changed the Size to 75% and predelay to 7ms. I also changed the dry setting to -15.4 and wet to -2.5.
    My Music - https://soundcloud.com/davidrhepworth-1
    Your Friendly Neighborhood Skippy

  2. #2

    Re: Reverb settings in Finale

    Hello David, reverb is always something I have to tweak over and over until I get something I can live with. These recordings sound very clean, but still have a very nice depth to them. I believe you've posted them before, and I really enjoyed listening to them again. I hope others who haven't heard them take the time to listen, these are some great pieces of music!

    Thanks for sharing your reverb settings, I'll be sure to give them a try!
    Michael Obermeyer, Jr.
    youtube channel
    soundclick page

  3. #3

    Re: Reverb settings in Finale

    A big +1 to what Michael "Sanyarem" said. These pieces are really super nice, David. You have a warm and wonderful style that really gives your music a warm power to sooth and uplift the soul.

    I wouldn't have known from the subject line that there was going to be music to listen to! It looked like a post for General Discussion, or one of the old tech forums. - Nice surprise that not only is it a post about technical matters, but it also has all this music from you.

    And now, what you've posted about using reverb in Finale has me needing to ask some questions. I'm a DAW software user (Sonar) with absolutely zero experience using Finale. I've tried to get a handle on what Finale users do to put their projects together, but I still really don't have a very clear picture. How reverb is handled is an example of my vague understanding.

    I do understand that Finale users are generally applying one reverb setting to an entire piece, as opposed to what we do in a sequencer, setting up a reverb, and then using Send knobs to apply varying percentages of a reverb in order to simulate the distance between each instrument and the virtual audience.

    But - if you're using Aria, there are Send knobs to use inside the VST - so why do Finale/Garritan users still manage to usually use one reverb setting for an entire file? Is it because the reverb unit is being inserted in a separate location outside of Aria, so the sound of the instruments is going through a mixer in Finale that has a slot for inserting the reverb plug-in?

    The Garritan Ambience you're referring to is a really old version of the reverb that hasn't been available for years. Is that somehow still being shipped with Finale or something? Or maybe your set up is just older and not recently updated?

    Here's Garritan Ambience with the default settings for Concert Hall 1 you refer to. For years I've had this version of the plug-in separate from both Kontakt and Aria:

    The results you got, as heard in the posted .wav files, sounds very nice. Probably a wee bit wetter than what I'd use, but this still sounds pleasing and with a nice depth, as Michael said. It's interesting that you boosted the Bass frequency. I always attenuate the Bass in a reverb plug-in, so concerned about adding any muddiness to my mix. No muddiness in yours though!

    In the current Aria, in the Effects window, there are now two different reverbs available - The current version of Ambience, and Convolution with over 40 Impulse Response files to choose from. Here's that window:

    The controls for Convolution are Spartan in the extreme. You only have control over the level and the amount of pre delay. But, being digital recordings of actual real world spaces, they automatically give music a natural realism.

    The other thing to note is that in this current version of Garritan Ambience, the original controls are there, but with no numbers on the dials! You have to set things with more approximation instead of the kind of specific settings you've listed.

    SO - it'd be great if you can fill me in on the questions I've brought up here about how this is all working in Finale. It's looking like maybe you're still using the old Kontakt version of GPO? But I'd basically just like to understand the work flow better with the tools you are using in Finale.

    Thanks for a great post!


  4. #4

    Re: Reverb settings in Finale

    Hi David,

    Two wonderful compositions you've presented here. I'm very fond of the rich orchestral sound and good orchestration: varied and expressive!
    It's hardly believable you did this in Finale. I've been working with Finale for over 10 years and have never achieved such a nice sound. Congratulations! You've produced a very decent ambience and balance, being a rewarding extra for your beautiful pieces.
    Thanks for informing us about your settings. That might be very handy for a next piece.

    A big hand for your outstanding performance!


  5. #5

    Re: Reverb settings in Finale

    Hello, David. Nice renderings, varied orchestration! I especially liked the depth without boominess. Very refreshing music and rendering.

    Have you given the convolution reverb in the Aria player a try? As Randy suggested, you can better control the amount and quality of reverb with individual instruments. I've used both, and these days I'm leaning toward the convolution reverb.

    Arthur J. Michaels

    Finale 2000 through Finales 25.4 (currently using Finale 25.4)
    Garritan COMB2, GPO4, GPO5, Audacity 2.1.3
    Core i7 860 @ 2.80 GHz, 8.0 GB RAM, Windows 10 Home Premium x64
    Dell 2408 WFP, 1920x1200
    M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496
    M-Audio AV-40 monitors

  6. #6

    Re: Reverb settings in Finale

    I'm sorry it's taken so long to respond to your comments, I've been very busy. Thank you all so much for your kind words. I've worked really hard, researched and experimented to get the sound I like.

    To kinda answer your question Randy, the reverb is being inserted in a separate unit outside of the Aria player. The ambience reverb is accessed in Finale's master effects seperate from Aria. I'm using Finale 2011 and it comes with ambience. Sorry I don't know a lot about how these technical matters work.
    My Music - https://soundcloud.com/davidrhepworth-1
    Your Friendly Neighborhood Skippy

  7. #7

    Re: Reverb settings in Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by davidrhepworth View Post
    ...The ambience reverb is accessed in Finale's master effects seperate from Aria. I'm using Finale 2011 and it comes with ambience...
    Hello again, David - Very good to see you again. Thanks for the reply. It inspired me to look up some info at the Finale site for even more info. I found several pages of very useful info here:

    Finale Tutorials

    That version of info happens to be for Mac users, so it refers to Audio Units instead of VST, but it's the same process for both Mac and Windows.

    From looking around at the site, I see that the most common way to use Garritan Ambience is through Finale's controls, just as you explained. The interface for the plugin is different from the Ambience screenshot I posted - In Finale it's a list of parameters with sliders and a box showing numerical displays. It's the same unit as I was talking about, but with a simpler, more straight-forward interface.

    And it's as I thought previously, that using reverb this way in Finale applies the same amount of effect to all instruments. As it says on the Finale reference page I found:

    "Ambience Reverb is a global effect, which applies to all Audio Units (VST) instruments."

    NOW - This should be interesting for you, David. In my earlier reply I was talking about how a more detailed, three dimensional sound can be achieved by having different amounts of reverb applied to the various instruments in a piece. Apparently this isn't done by a lot of Finale users, but it's simple to do and would be worth some experimentation.

    As it says on those tute pages:

    "It is also possible to apply the Garritan Aria's built-in reverb instead of Finale's Ambience Reverb. First, you will want to turn Ambience Reverb off by unchecking the Ambience Reverb checkbox in the Audio Units Banks & Effects dialog box."

    Definitely, turn the reverb off in the master effects area or you'll be adding reverb twice.

    Then, there's an image in the tute of Garritan Ambience as it looks in ARIA. It's something like the image I posted earlier, it's just out of date, taken of an older version of ARIA, but it's still the same concept.

    Working with that Ambience inside ARIA instead of the Finale master effects section, you would then be able to use the "Send" controls in ARIA's mixer to apply different amounts of that reverb to each instrument. Very simple - In the channel strip for each instrument, just move the Send knob to the right until you like the sound. And the theory is simple - The farther away a sound source is from the listener, the more reverb.

    Here's the Mixer in ARIA with 16 instruments loaded. The shot is of the Mixer. You can see all the controls have been used - The volume sliders, the Pan knobs, and the Send knobs:

    The Finale tute says again, to make the point clear:

    "Remember that this Garritan Aria Ambience reverb should not be used in combination with Finale's Ambience Reverb, which can be set in the Audio Units Banks & Effects dialog box."

    I hope this info is useful to you. I'm glad to finally have a better understanding of how Finale works, thanks to your post. I get it now why Finale renderings are often far too wet with reverb - users don't always avail themselves of all the available tools. I've always thought there just had to be a simple way to use the ARIA controls - I finally now see there is!


  8. #8

    Re: Reverb settings in Finale

    Thanks for the info Randy. You've given me some helpful tips, and I'll definitely be experimenting some more.
    My Music - https://soundcloud.com/davidrhepworth-1
    Your Friendly Neighborhood Skippy

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