• Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Topic: It's my first time...be gentle

  1. #1

    It\'s my first time...be gentle

    Well, I\'ve been threatening to do this for a few weeks now, so here is.... something. I hate to preface, but I\'m a new computer user and an even newer music maker who\'s education in theory stopped at figuring out the guitar solo to Nugents \"Wango Tango\" (That\'s right I\'ve just dated myself) I\'ve been working on Logic audio and the exs24 for about 2 1/2 months now and I\'m starting to get more comfortable. Mr Bouhalassa was good enough to give one of my earlier ditties a listen and give me the tip of joining up this here fine forum. I have truly enjoyed (and learned a lot) listening to you fellas joust.

    Having no library to speak of I must thank Maarten at Project Sam for the freebie trumpet. It made me get my budget constrained butt online asap to buy and download Sams Solo French Horn. Another beaut. I wish we could download more quality samples like that... instant gratification! Then again VSL would probably take the better part of six months. The rest of the stuff was found scouring the web. Some of the fabled Akai downloads too. Thank you Akai.

    Also a big thanks to Falcon1 who provided some space for me to get this out to you guys. Thank you Stefan!

    well...on with the show and let loose the dogs


    Thanks for the schooling guys


  2. #2

    Re: It\'s my first time...be gentle

    Oh I get it. In order to get someone to listen to your stuff you have to sound like someone else? No...wait...not... sound like someone else?? Who do you have to sound like... exactly?

    A little attention please, I was an only child
    I\'m dying here

    all alone in the universe

  3. #3

    Re: It\'s my first time...be gentle

    Patience grasshopper. I posted a piece and got 400+ hits on it, with 2 replies. Can\'t expect to post a piece and get instant replies.

    I like your composition, but I think the one thing that could be improved a ton is the reverb. It sounds like it\'s being played in a garage. The balance of the orchestra needs to be realistic as well. With percussion being in the back instead of it sounding like chimes smacking the microphone.

    Were you trying to achieve realism as far as this piece goes? Or is this just a sketch?

    Good compositions, I\'d like to hear more.

  4. #4

    Re: It\'s my first time...be gentle

    Mr Sharmy!
    thanks for showing up to my coming out party.

    I\'m on it. Just want to get better and thankfully this place exists.

    Reverb... check

    Placement... check...Wait, this begs a question. All my tracks are stereo. Does it behoove you to keep your samps mono for better separation? They just sound so much better in stereo. This could be a problem? Also I\'m guilty of maybe putting too much on each track. There were only eight on that. Am I correct in assuming that I should spread it out a bit. I\'m sure you know the deal with a single monitor and nothing but a mouse to mix with. Ahhh, one day.... KNOBS!! I\'m also guessing a little mastering type software will help me brighten things up a bit.

    Anyway thanks for listening and I hope I can bend your ear again sometime.


  5. #5

    Re: It\'s my first time...be gentle

    I try to avoid pan pots in stereo placement. I use pan on mono tracks, bugt for stereo, I like to generally pan hard right and left, then use volume to adjust position. Less volume left=pan right.

    I trick I picked up from the Musicplayer.com forums , where really top notch engineers offer generous advice. Kind of like Northernsounds for mixing!

    Nice music - a good beginning. Keep at it.


  6. #6

    Re: It\'s my first time...be gentle

    OK, now I\'ve listened.. Nothing wrong with the music.. but you have to improve your mix. I\'m not the orchestral guru here but I\'ll tell you what i think anyway [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] . The overall sound is very harsh.. maybe you should try to find a warmer reverb and check the eq in your mix. The metallic sounds and percussion should be mixed softer.. for an example, the bells tree sounds like its louder than the brass sometimes. I get the feeling that some samples are ff samples even when you play softer notes. OK that was it.. good luck


  7. #7

    Re: It\'s my first time...be gentle

    ok, I´m going to give you my opinion, but I will dare a risky one so be aware my crit will probably range from half-mistaken to totally erroneous.

    First of all I agree with the EQ point that the other people pointed. Some instruments sound too loud and others too weak. It´s the relation between the different volumes what doesn´t convince me, but the rest of the replies seem to have way more knowledge in this aspect than I do, so I´ll leave that to them.

    As for the composition itself it left me with a mixed bag of feelings. It sounds to me like you´re almost working with sound layers more than actual orchestration. This has two faces: on the flip side it makes you bring really original resorts and some interesting ideas, which you probably might not have found with a more traditional approach. That´s very good. Now the problem with this is that you made several instruments play stuff that it´s not adequate to them, or at least not their strongest field for suggesting stuff, which hurts the realism of the virtual orchestra. This sound layer stuff (which I defend you seemed to use, although I might be totally wrong and maybe you´re using classic orchestration ways) is typical of electronic music (I´ve done it myself) but leads IMHO to
    unbalanced passages when dealing with orchestral arrangements. Some instruments seem to appear or disappear without enough musical reasons, which seems to support my \"sound layers\" theory. It could also be that there are reasons but I dont understand them. I don´t pretend to be a expert.

    I just think you have to support what you´re trying to say with musical reasons and at some moments I got the feeling I was talking with a chinese guy [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] (I can´t speak chinese for the life of me).

    I also find the strings sound way too synthy at times. For instance from 1:00 to 1:15 and near 2:00 they had that distinct keyboard-played feel that we have to avoid so much.

    But it was an interesting theme to hear. I just found a lot of things there. Many of them I like, others I don´t.


    Ps- Also I don´t understand the first 15 seconds. Sounds like players getting in tune, but that sounded as the fakest part to my ears.

  8. #8

    Re: It\'s my first time...be gentle

    To quote Robert Blake \"you coudn\'t pound a dime up my a** with a sledgehammer\" Yeah, I\'m a bit clenched up... but it is, if it can be, a good clenched. I think I got the gist of what I have to work on. I hope you guys wouldn\'t mind revisiting this after I flail away at trying to make some tweaks to my technical shortcomings. It would benefit me to know if I\'m going in the right direction. I aspire to be a peer someday. maybe even have a star (Gulp again, that would be a proud day I can tell you) Well I gotta run out and get myself a quality reverb and an orchestra map now (and maybe a theory book!) But I appreciate you guys giving a listen and hope you can keep an eye on me.

    your humble student
    (very humble right about now!)


  9. #9

    Re: It\'s my first time...be gentle

    Hi christianb

    Congrats on coming out! I\'ve been reading this forum regularly for a good while now, and I\'ve learned a great deal. But I still haven\'t made the brave step you\'ve just made ...

    My background is more electronic than orchestral -which is why I tend to read here rather than chip in. But that\'s also why Netvudu\'s post rang a bell with me, and made me realise why I couldn\'t quite get to grips with your interesting work. So I hope I can help a little.

    I won\'t comment on production, since your mentors above have got that one nailed. As regards the track, though, it seems you\'ve deliberately avoided any complex harmonic development and - as Netvudu says - concentrated on developing it by building layers. In part I found this quite effective. But the dynamic signposts are sometimes a bit confusing.

    For example: the introduction seems to be in two parts - a soundscape (0:00-0:17) and then big chords (0:18-0:30). Typically (at least in the rather hackneyed electronic world I\'ve been inhabiting) the soundscape would have a more definite dynamic build over its duration. This would create more excitement ahead of your big entry (oo-er matron ...). How about building your diminished chord from the bottom up and saving the brass \'til, say, 0:12?

    When you get going with your theme (0:30-1:20ish) you create a convincing, rather menacing atmosphere which subsides into a nice eerie section with what sounds like a horn taking the lead. But you then jump very abruptly (1:39) into your next section - so much so, I think, that you sell yourself short. Back in the world of trance electronica, this is the sort of section that would be presaged by a long snare roll, lots of over-reverbed synths on two-octave upward pitch bends, a laser and a dry ice machine ...

    In other words, this is the big thing that happens in your track (1:38-2:01). My humble suggestion would be that you make the most of it. The preceding section is quiet. I\'d say either bring it right down to nothing then have a big percussion crack to frighten the bejesus out of the listener; or take a bit more time rebuilding from eerie to ominous/threatening so that when that section kicks in the listener gives it the respect it deserves.

    I\'d make much the same comments about the rest. In fact, overall I\'d say you\'ve almost got too much interesting stuff in this work for something of its brief length.

    I do believe this is one of the hardest disciplines to learn. My own failing was that I tried to throw a symphony into a six-minute dance track when the listener simply wanted to know when s/he was supposed to throw their hands in the air ... I\'d say the best rule of thumb if you\'re not particularly into the theory of structure is \"don\'t overestimate what your listener can take in\". Make it obvious, and don\'t overload him/her in too short a timescale.

    This is all supposed to be constructive. You\'ve got some interesting ideas in there which should do themselves justice with a bit of polishing.

    Best wishes


  10. #10

    Re: It\'s my first time...be gentle

    Originally posted by Sharmy:
    Samples are usually in stereo, but I still pan to set up the orch the way I want it.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">But watch out for close-miked stereo instruments. This approach can cause the stereo image to be unstable for that kind of instrument. The image will breakup up or shimmer or flutter. For close-miked try going mono and use a soundstage tool like FX3 or an impulse modeler to organize the stereo field. Takes more work, but it\'s worth it.


Go Back to forum

Tags for this Thread


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts