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Topic: legato flute with average libs..need help

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  1. #1

    legato flute with average libs..need help

    Hello. Letīs suppose the flute player plays another note just changing the fingering (that is no initial attack in that note, but using the same breath of the former note) Is that whatīs commonly called \"legato\"?

    But mainly, how do you fake it? I suppose itīs using two MIDI tracks and crossfading? Can you explain me how do I properly do it using Cubase? Can you realize how silly my questions seem?...thatīs because Iīm a beginner. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

  2. #2

    Re: legato flute with average libs..need help

    get VSL [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    hehee

    seriously, you could try editing your flute patch\'s samples to chop off the attack, thus making some fake \"legato\" samples. then use Key Switching to switch back and forth. Or if you have a portamento feature (Kontakt) use that to add slight pitching effects.

    To be honest tho, after playing with VSL, I dont think there\'s any way to do it \"right\" without having some sort of gracenotes sampled, or actual legato samples.

    Its one of the biggest problems with woodwind samples, even if you \"fake\" legato samples by chopping the start of the sample off, it just sounds fake.

    sorry...

  3. #3

    Re: legato flute with average libs..need help

    I see...I want to have a closer look of the VSL lib. Please King, send your copy to Madrid, Spain, so I can better examine it.

    [shadow mode on]sssh, shut up people...I bet he sends it[/shadow mode off]

    [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

  4. #4

    Re: legato flute with average libs..need help

    \"Letīs suppose the flute player plays another note just changing the fingering (that is no initial attack in that note, but using the same breath of the former note) Is that whatīs commonly called \"legato\"?\"

    In flute playing that technique is called slurring. A slur is when you use the tongue to begin the first note and then change subsequent notes by changing fingering only. In true legato playing, the tongue is used on all notes, but it is a very soft tongue - like saying \"du\" instead of \"tu\". I think when people are talking of legato on this forum, they mean a smooth connected sound - something VSL seems to do very well.

    Terry

  5. #5

    Re: legato flute with average libs..need help

    Originally posted by Terry:
    \"Letīs suppose the flute player plays another note just changing the fingering (that is no initial attack in that note, but using the same breath of the former note) Is that whatīs commonly called \"legato\"?\"

    In flute playing that technique is called slurring. A slur is when you use the tongue to begin the first note and then change subsequent notes by changing fingering only. In true legato playing, the tongue is used on all notes, but it is a very soft tongue - like saying \"du\" instead of \"tu\". I think when people are talking of legato on this forum, they mean a smooth connected sound - something VSL seems to do very well.

    Terry
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Uh.. eh? It\'s called legato. A Slur is an articulation to tell the player to play legato. If the player wants to rearticulate the note again, I suppose that\'s up to the player, but a slur marking is there to tell the player not to do that. I suppose you could call it slurring, but I don\'t know anyone who does.

  6. #6

    Re: legato flute with average libs..need help

    From a wind instrument player’s perspective Terry’s description is accurate. Legato can be accomplished in the two ways described. The soft “du” tongue is sometimes preferable because it can often better define the transitions between notes while remaining very smooth (if well executed), but players more commonly “slur” (as described by Terry) between notes that are connected in notation with a slur mark. The term “legato” is ambiguous from an execution standpoint since the objective of smooth note-to-note performance can be accomplished through two distinctly different techniques. “Legato” describes the desired end result – “slurring” describes the most common means of accomplishing that result. Wind players are closer to the execution end of things so the terminology reflects that fact. Hence, wind players almost always refer to this action as “slurring.”

    Tom

  7. #7

    Re: legato flute with average libs..need help

    Interesting. So, when would a woodwind player tongue each note, but still play very legato? Like... what kind of notation would they see?

  8. #8
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    Re: legato flute with average libs..need help

    Netvudu, the simplest way of sequencing legato is to save a copy of your flute and slow the attack by 0.1 - 0.2 sec. Cut and paste the legato notes on to a second track and overlap them slightly with the preceding notes. Make sure the releases of both instruments are long enough -at least 0.15 sec. Experiment with different attacks, until you get the transition you want. (You can use \"sample offset\" to remove the original tonguing completely, but you\'ll need a slower attack).

    Bear in mind that the legato transition in real flute playing is infinitely variable between definite tongeing from the palate (a tongued \"d\" with the tip curled slightly away from the teeth) and true slur with no tonguing. Even in true slurring there is a brief transition sound as one standing wave breaks down and the next one builds up, giving a soft, minisculy transient \"L\" sound. So don\'t bother to try and create a radically smooth transition. I don\'t believe there is any portamento across the transition, unlike in a stringed instrument.

  9. #9
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    Re: legato flute with average libs..need help

    Originally posted by vaultcomplex:
    Interesting. So, when would a woodwind player tongue each note, but still play very legato? Like... what kind of notation would they see?
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Just a slur (printed or interpreted). Slurred notes in slow phrases are more likely to be tongued, to define the notes better, particularly on the crusis. (Having said that, in really expressive playing the anacrusis is often emphasised and tongued more than the subsequent crusis, in a slurred phrase)

  10. #10

    Re: legato flute with average libs..need help

    Netvudu, the simplest way of sequencing legato is to save a copy of your flute and slow the attack by 0.1 - 0.2 sec. Cut and paste the legato notes on to a second track and overlap them slightly with the preceding notes. Make sure the releases of both instruments are long enough -at least 0.15 sec. Experiment with different attacks, until you get the transition you want. (You can use \"sample offset\" to remove the original tonguing completely, but you\'ll need a slower attack).

    Bear in mind that the legato transition in real flute playing is infinitely variable between definite tongeing from the palate (a tongued \"d\" with the tip curled slightly away from the teeth) and true slur with no tonguing. Even in true slurring there is a brief transition sound as one standing wave breaks down and the next one builds up, giving a soft, minisculy transient \"L\" sound. So don\'t bother to try and create a radically smooth transition. I don\'t believe there is any portamento across the transition, unlike in a stringed instrument.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Thanks Beckers. It must be the most logical way, because thatīs more or less what I was doing. Playing with the attacks and slightly overlapping notes. I understand I shouldnt try to achieve the über-smooth finish. Iīm just trying to go for some continuity feel as opposed to having all the notes strongly attacked, which sounds pretty unnatural.

    ...but itīs tough to get a good effect, isnīt it?

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