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Topic: Thoughts/Questions RE: QLSO???

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Los Angeles

    Thoughts/Questions RE: QLSO???

    I\'m curious if any of you are holding off on getting VSL to see what QLSO has to offer?

    My questions are:

    1) Who here is waiting for QLSO?

    2) Did you buy VSL but plan to get QLSO the day it comes out (or soon after)

    3) Would it be true to say that QLSO will need more power than VSL?


  2. #2

    Re: Thoughts/Questions RE: QLSO???

    1) I\'m not waiting for it, but I\'ll certainly consider it at some point, even though I plan to get VSL relatively soon.


    3)Well we don\'t know for sure, however, given QL\'s track record for ridiculously large power-hungry samples, I\'d say yes.

    I\'m also sticking with my SI strings in addition to VSL I think. From what I hear, the legato tools are great, but the strings are a tad on the thin side. The SI\'s are rich and expressive, so I will definitely be keeping libraries like that around. My only problem is, am I going to need to get another gigastudio? Probably [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

  3. #3

    Re: Thoughts/Questions RE: QLSO???

    I\'m waiting to hear QLSO, before I buy it or VSL.
    And it looks like I will also need to plunk down some cash for another Giga PC (or two) regardless of which library I buy.

  4. #4

    Re: Thoughts/Questions RE: QLSO???

    Actually, to clarify, I heard QLSO at NAMM and was extremely impressed, but I want to hear it again in its completed form, with demos, real world application, etc.

    John Z.

  5. #5

    Re: Thoughts/Questions RE: QLSO???

    John, I want to respond as both a composer and someone who also creates Giga systems ( www.truespec.com ).

    Both libraries are different in concept and execution.

    EW/QLSO will be executed initially using a Kontakt sample player specifically designed by Native Instruments for EastWest. Obviously, you can start here, but the opportunity to upgrade to a full version of Kontakt is realistic. Because Giga is one-platform only, you have two execution possibilities.

    First, you can use Kontakt as a VSTi/virtual instrument for MAS, VST, DXi, and at some point (we hear) audio units. As of the current release, Kontakt is now streaming and has been tested up to 200 voices and over for polyphony. Second, Kontakt can equally function as free-standing program.

    Thus, depending on your sequencing computer, you can use Kontakt/QLSO to access your existing RAM and potentially have it run on a separate computer, too.

    This is a huge execution advantage, and potentially, an overall pricing advantage for we composers since the one program can operate in a variety of scenarios.

    And clearly, the strengths of Kontakt will be a strength with EW/QLSO.

    Night and day. I\'ve heard the same demos as everyone else. With Herb (VSL), it\'s about sonic purity, clarity, realism and detail. Herb\'s thinking and his use of the Performance set are light years ahead of any other developer\'s thinking. It\'s a stunning approach and concept, and the orchestral results in many ways, are miraculous. Listen to the Firebird demo elsewhere on Northern Sounds as a superb example.

    From what we\'ve heard of EW/QLSO, the thinking isn\'t just about clarity and detail, it\'s about control over the final recording. I think that Doug and Nick\'s approach is equally stunning, but in a totally different perspective. Because with EW/QLSO, you can control the final sound of the orchestra by being able to move the mics.

    Let me put this into a perspective. In Los Angeles, there are UNDER a dozen engineers who really know how to record a studio orchestra. And yet, with EW/QLSO the game for we composers has just been raised several bars, because instead of being concerned about panning and EQ\'ing, along with writing and performing in all the parts, we can now mic our orchestra and really create a unique recorded sound.

    Each is equally miraculous and wonderful. And each, interestingly enough, is the brainchild of two composers who both score for film who created unique solutions for their own needs and work habits, along with those of other composers.

    What is equally unique, is that both Herb and Nick have pushed GigaStudio beyond where anyone ever thought it might go when it was released three years ago this June.

    With the release of EW/QLSO, the current release of VSL followed by the Pro Edition and Symphonic Cube, we composers are finally in a place comparable to film directors with digital. Just as film directors can do virtually what they want with digital, so in a few weeks, will we be able to do virtually anything we want orchestrally short of a live orchestra.

    Even IF it requires a combination of computers bearing Giga and Kontakt, what a time. WE win!

    And on that note, I say, \"Thank you, Herb! And thank you Nick and Doug!\"


  6. #6

    Re: Thoughts/Questions RE: QLSO???


    I hear you. Its an \"embarassment of riches\". I still remember the days of trying to do the \"virtual orchestra\" thing with a Roland S-50 and a Fostex 8 track.
    The only complaints heard from this direction will be the ones coming from my wife after I\'ve bought both libraries, and a few PCs, and....

    John Z.

  7. #7

    Re: Thoughts/Questions RE: QLSO???

    I bought VSL.
    I am less and less interested in QLVSO.

    The phrasing that is now possible with the vsl performance set IS EXACTLY what I have been struggeling with in terms of libraries.

    The control over placement and ambience is a distant concern vs. realistic phrasing.

    I spent a night recording the audio off of a bunch of Movie DVDs.
    Minority report.
    star wars ep 1 and 2
    red ocober

    I then edited out exposed orchestra sections and created a playlist of these soundtracks.
    I then interspersed various demos of different libraries. SI, Garriton, VSL, sam horns, KH.

    Put them in a random order.
    Then sat with Senn hd600\'s and listened over and over taking notes.
    In the end VSL just had my mouth wide open. Jaw on the floor.
    It was by far the most similair to the sound of the dvd\'s.
    I ordered the next day.
    If QL eventually adressed phraseing ala the performance set I will reconsider. As a fan of Kontakt I certainly like the idea of instruments in that format.

  8. #8

    Re: Thoughts/Questions RE: QLSO???

    Word up Peter. I loved that speech! Keep it up!

    Love - Chris

  9. #9

    Re: Thoughts/Questions RE: QLSO???

    Originally posted by ed hamilton:
    I bought VSL.

    The control over placement and ambience is a distant concern vs. realistic phrasing.

    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Ed,

    I could not have said this any better myself!!!!



  10. #10

    Re: Thoughts/Questions RE: QLSO???

    Originally posted by peter269:
    With Herb (VSL), it\'s about sonic purity, clarity, realism and
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Peter,

    A small quote from your post (most of which I agree with btw) except the above statement.

    The reason we chose Prof. Keith O. Johnson to record the EWQL orchestra in a concert hall, selected by him, was to make sure we ended up with \"sonic purity, clarity, realism and detail\" - PLUS \"user control of tonality and ambience\" which VSL does not have, which makes a HUGE difference to the end result.

    Keith\'s credentials are undisputably the best in his field. His 90-plus recordings have long been considered the standard for high fidelity, and include two GRAMMY award-winners and eight additional GRAMMY nominations.

    In fact, Keith does not believe in the VSL approach to recording classical instruments. Here is Keith\'s response to this concept in his own words (followed by some review quotes of his recordings) -

    \"A one sample approach, even with extensive electronic support, won\'t create the varying spatial energy relationships that occur when musicians play different notes. The sounds from behind a trumpet are different from those in front, and their effect in a good space is quite audible and is a part of the whole listening experience. The real instrument sound has both perceptions and they change when the instrument is moved. Small room and anechoic samples reveal this effect as a serious problem. Sound radiation from instruments is very complex and its effect on direct as well as environmental sound perception is important. Consequently, the EASTWEST / QUANTUM LEAP SYMPHONIC ORCHESTRA was recorded in a big space, and has multiple paths.\" - Keith O. Johnson.

    Some review quotes from Keith\'s recordings -

    \"Its sonic quality is most impressive in stereo spread, depth, presence, and resolution of detail, with rock-solid image stability, in a spacious ambiance -- a demonstration-quality recording if there ever was one.\" --McKelvey, AMERICAN RECORD GUIDE

    \"This may be some of the best sound Keith Johnson has ever gotten out of Symphony Hall in Minneapolis, and certainly Oue\'s most convincing work with the Minnesota players, who sound for all the world more like the Philadelphia than that orchestra does these days . . . how Johnson got that huge climax at the end of the Dances cleanly onto tape transcends engineering and goes into the realm of magic.\" -- Harry Pearson, THE ABSOLUTE SOUND

    \"Once again, Keith Johnson has raised the bar of excellence in the recording of a symphony orchestra. . . It\'s a fabulous recording and a super performance of the SYMPHONIC DANCES, and a testament to the brilliance of Keith Johnson and his associates.\" -- Anthony Kershaw, Audiophilia.com

    \"Keith Johnson\'s engineering, mastering and production have, in this case, produced the finest orchestral recording I have ever heard. It is instantly among that handful of CDs I will carry with me to audition sound systems, or that I will play to show off my own. Listening to this recording is one of those exultant musical experiences that will remind you why you got into the audiophile game in the first place.\" -- Russell Lichter, Soundstage.com

    \"I recommend it highly to those who love the sound of the symphony orchestra in all its glory, and to those who love to show off what their audio systems can do when asked to reproduce first-class orchestral showpieces.\"\" - Karl Nehring, THE SENSIBLE SOUND

    \"Stunning audiophile sonics...the clarity, transparency, and firm definition of individual orchestral timbres are unequaled in my listening experience.\" -- Lawrence A. Johnson, FANFARE

    \"These people really know how to record an orchestra.\" -- Richard Freed, WETA Radio

    Many people in this forum compare VSL to other sample libraries that have been recorded with a similar philosophy - and clearly they have raised the bar against this competition. However, all of these libraries (including VSL) require artificial reverb (which, IMO always sounds artificial) to sound similar to what listeners are used to hearing in a concert hall (where 95% of orchestras are heard). Our ambience is natural, generated by the very instruments included in the library, and it does not sound like artificial reverb.

    Plus, instead of using EQ, which can also sound unnatural, you can use the virtual \"audio zoom\" of the multiple microphone set-ups included in EWQLSO to fine-tune tonality to customize the sound.

    These are not minor issues. We have been receiving CDs from composers interested in creating demos for EWQLSO, and can tell you, almost without exception, the \"sound\" of their orchestral mock-ups is lacking in realism - even though the composers are very talented. Nick would compose a piece in a day, and spend the next three days trying to make it sound believable! All of this experience went into the planning and execution of this library.

    We hope to demonstrate this at our demo facility after the library is released.

    All the best,

    Doug Rogers

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