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Topic: Channel Aftertouch in JABB

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  1. #1

    Channel Aftertouch in JABB

    I am trying to get Channel Pressure (AKA Channel Aftertouch) to control vibrato intensity with the woodwind instruments.

    Logging shows that Channel Pressure messages with appropriate values are being send to the ARIA Player but I hear no audible effect. Is there something else I need to set correctly to get the instruments to respond to Channel Pressure?

    Thanks,
    John

  2. #2

    Re: Channel Aftertouch in JABB

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBarnes View Post
    I am trying to get Channel Pressure (AKA Channel Aftertouch) to control vibrato intensity with the woodwind instruments.

    Logging shows that Channel Pressure messages with appropriate values are being send to the ARIA Player but I hear no audible effect. Is there something else I need to set correctly to get the instruments to respond to Channel Pressure?

    Thanks,
    John
    Hello, John - Thanks for the post.

    You don't mention if you're using JABB in DAW software, a notation program, or if you're using ARIA in stand-alone mode.

    In case you're using a sequencer/DAW software, such as Sonar that I'm most familiar with, I can suggest at least this one thing:

    --By default, Sonar doesn't record or pass on AfterTouch data. In MIDI preferences, the box next to AT needs to be checked so it can be used.

    So it's possible that whatever program you're using is currently set to not respond to AT. A log report would show that AT is indeed being transmitted from your keyboard, but the critical point is if your program is then actually using the data.

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: Channel Aftertouch in JABB

    Hello Randy,

    Thanks for your response. I'll give some more information about the context.

    The MIDI stream is originated by a Yamaha WX5 wind controller. This does not produce Aftertouch messages of either type (poly or channel) but is configured to produce CC #18 messages in response to the lip sensor position. This MIDI stream is recorded in the Reaper DAW. The FX applied to the track have the Garritan Aria player as the last in the chain with an Alto sax configured as the instrument on the MIDI channel used (channel 1). As you would expect from the JABB manual, the CC #18 messages, if left in the MIDI stream produce the Growl effect.

    What I want to do is to change the CC #18 messages to Aftertouch, so that they control vibrato intensity in the sax sound. To accomplish that I have added a VSTi effect called MungRack to the chain before the Aria player and configured it (a) to produce Channel Aftertouch messages based on the values in the CC #18 messages and (b) to discard the CC #18 messages. You can see on the snapshot of the MungRack log below that this substitution in active. The effect on the sax sound is that the Growl is absent, but I can hear no Vibrato.

    I know there are two sorts of Aftertouch messages - Poly Aftertouch which includes the note number of the target note and Channel Aftertouch which has no note number and is meant to be applied to all current notes on the channel.
    The only messages I can generate using the the above setup is Channel Aftertouch. The only example of the use of vibrato in a JABB sax I have managed to find uses Poly Aftertouch. Hence my original question - do the Garritan JABB woodwind instruments respond to Channel Aftertouch (AKA Channel Pressure) for vibrato control?

    Thanks for your help,
    John


  4. #4

    Re: Channel Aftertouch in JABB

    Hi, John

    Answering your key question first: Yes JABB instruments respond to Channel Aftertouch. You don't need the more rarely used Poly Aftertouch. My keyboard, like most, only generates Channel AT, and Sonar accepts Channel AT - so I have no doubt on that point.

    As for the rest -Thanks for explaining in detail what your situation is and what you're trying to do. Garritan partnered with Akai, so it's the Akai EWI which has integrated support for Garritan ARIA. Getting the Yamaha WX5 to work with Garritan seems to be a trickier proposition.

    It looks like this "MungRack" should be converting your CC18 input to AT, but since it's not working, clearly something's amiss.

    I'm not completely sure what I'm looking at in the screenshot of MungRack's GUI. What are the numbers in parenthesis - Like at the top - C4 Cntlr: 18-GeneralPurpose (93) - what's that last number? It's not a MIDI controller number, since 93 is for chorus depth.

    Here are a few thoughts:

    The alternate way to have AT is to use MIDI CC131. Maybe this MungRack can be set up that way instead - CC18 to CC131. Worth a try since when JABB instruments receive 131, they respond just as if they were receiving AT.

    Here's a site for some very old MIDI tools. They used to be posted at the Garritan site, because the programmer, "TenCrazy," came up with many useful plugins for GPO users. He has a CC mapper there which does what MungRack does. If Reaper can use MFX (MIDI effects) - maybe this will work:

    TenCrazy MFX CC Map

    If you can't get vibrato happening in real time the way you want, there is the alternative of adding AT vibrato control in the Piano Roll View of Reaper. You would be drawing in the data - At least you'd be getting your vibrato going on, but obviously not in real time. It's a work around that would suffice if what you're doing is producing recordings.

    Randy

  5. #5

    Re: Channel Aftertouch in JABB

    Randy,

    Thanks for that information and for the download link.

    I think I am making progress, having set up a simple test scenario using the MIDI editor in Reaper I have been able to invoke varying levels of vibrato in response to varying Channel Aftertouch values.

    My current guess as to why I get no discernible vibrato when I hit the Garritan synth with the flood of Channel Aftertouch messages converted from the CC #18 messages produced by the WX5 is that there are just too many of them for the Garraitan software to cope with. I will do some more MIDI editing experiments to test that theory.

    Thanks,
    John

  6. #6

    Re: Channel Aftertouch in JABB

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBarnes View Post
    ...I think I am making progress, having set up a simple test scenario using the MIDI editor in Reaper I have been able to invoke varying levels of vibrato in response to varying Channel Aftertouch values.
    That's good. I think you mean you've tested drawing in some AfterTouch in Reaper, and you've had the appropriate vibrato response from ARIA?
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBarnes View Post
    My current guess as to why I get no discernible vibrato when I hit the Garritan synth with the flood of Channel Aftertouch messages converted from the CC #18 messages produced by the WX5 is that there are just too many of them for the Garraitan software to cope with...
    Hmmm, maybe. But it's hard to imagine there ever being more AT data than ARIA can handle. Here's a screenshot of some pretty densely packed AT data being successfully used on a Garritan instrument:



    Maybe your data is getting accidentally doubled, cancelling out the effect? Something of the sort? Best of luck as you investigate. And don't forget to try using CC131, the alternate approach to AT.

    Randy

  7. #7

    Re: Channel Aftertouch in JABB

    After asking for advice at one of the Reaper forums, I am using a different plugin:

    midiConverter3 from the piz MIDI pack form here: http://code.google.com/p/pizmidi/

    That seems to work as expected. The CC#18 messages are being converted to Channel Aftertouch and the vibrato sounds as expected.

    Thanks for you help,
    John

  8. #8

    Re: Channel Aftertouch in JABB

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBarnes View Post
    After asking for advice at one of the Reaper forums, I am using a different plugin:

    midiConverter3 from the piz MIDI pack form here: http://code.google.com/p/pizmidi/

    That seems to work as expected. The CC#18 messages are being converted to Channel Aftertouch and the vibrato sounds as expected.

    Thanks for you help,
    John
    Thanks for that update, John - Glad things are working for you now. Oh yeah, the piz MIDI pack - I downloaded that quite some time ago, and didn't get it working at the time. I should look into it again to see if there are plugins from that which I could try. Thanks!

    Randy

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