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Topic: JABB Trumpet and Trombone Wah-Wah - Still Struggling

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  1. #1

    JABB Trumpet and Trombone Wah-Wah - Still Struggling

    I know that for the trumpet and trombone wah-wah effect in JABB we use the plunger mute with CC16 to switch it on and off.

    Great .. except however hard I try and whatever CC16 values I draw in and wherever I try placing them in relation to the note .. I just cannot get even close to a realistic 'Wah...Waahhh'

    I am working on this in Sonar so I am trying here to ask if anyone knows of any example Sonar files of 'authentic-sounding' trumpet and trombone 'wah-wah' I can open here in my Sonar to study how it's achieved.

    It's a long shot but I thought I'd try anyway.

    Thanks.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  2. #2

    Re: JABB Trumpet and Trombone Wah-Wah - Still Struggling

    It's OK .. I think I've found what was needed.

    I was trying with one note instead of two.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  3. #3

    Re: JABB Trumpet and Trombone Wah-Wah - Still Struggling

    I'm glad you figured it out. I have not tried that yet and you have helped me for when I will want the wah-wah in a piece. Thanks for the updated report.
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  4. #4

    Re: JABB Trumpet and Trombone Wah-Wah - Still Struggling

    Hello Rich,

    Well, I still don't have the exact sound I want but this discovery seems to be the key.

    Playing around with two notes instead of one now I'm very close and I think some more tweaking will do it.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  5. #5

    Re: JABB Trumpet and Trombone Wah-Wah - Still Struggling

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_uk View Post
    It's OK .. I think I've found what was needed.

    I was trying with one note instead of two.
    Good morning, Michael - I started the day testing this, since after all this time, I'd never used the Plunger Mute instruments in JABB.

    I'm not sure why you needed to use two notes. I have it working fine with single notes. Here's a screen shot of five notes using the Trombone Plunger+St Mute, taken in the PRV so you can see the use of CC16 and 11. Click the image for the MP3 of what it sounds like:



    (click image for MP3)

    There must be something in the way I did this that's different from your experiment - Hope this helps. One thing for sure, you don't want to just switch the effect on and off. The CC16 data has to play the wah wah like a live musician would.

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: JABB Trumpet and Trombone Wah-Wah - Still Struggling

    Hello Randy,

    WOW .. that's brilliant.

    Thanks for the screenshot. I'll study that in detail.

    I'm sending you a PM.

    Well .. it's back to the drawing board for me.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  7. #7

    Re: JABB Trumpet and Trombone Wah-Wah - Still Struggling

    Quote Originally Posted by RichR View Post
    I'm glad you figured it out. I have not tried that yet and you have helped me for when I will want the wah-wah in a piece. Thanks for the updated report.
    Hey Rich, sorry, looks like I led you up the garden path.

    See Randy's screenshot for the real thing.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  8. #8

    Re: JABB Trumpet and Trombone Wah-Wah - Still Struggling

    You've already seen my post, great, Michael! - That was an extremely quick experiment, all done in 5 minutes, from recording in Sonar and setting up the MP3 and screen shot at Box, so it's rough around the edges. Glad it demos the plunger mute well enough though. With a little more time, I'm sure it could get an even stronger wah-wah effect.

    Notes on what I think helped to get the results:

    --Velocity values are very low, so the attack envelope opens up slowly.

    --CC16 swoops up from zero at the start of the note, peaks half way through the note, and closes down again.

    --CC11 volume is swooping also to emphasize the effect.

    Looking at that screen shot, for it to be done more perfectly, CC16 should have been down to zero (black dot) before the second note, and should have closed off to zero at the end Also, there's conflicting CC11 volume data on that last note - I was just in a hurry and didn't notice I ended up with two curves on that note.

    Those ragged flaws didn't hurt the results too much though.

    Something I would do to emphasize the wah if needed, would be to automate a mid frequency in Sonar, using the Sonitus EQ that resides on all tracks, so that the mid frequency also swoops up by the middle of the note, stressing the difference in tone.

    But the good news is that the wah wah works on single notes. That would be how you use it more often than on two continuous notes, and really it's pretty easy to get it working. I think perhaps you trying to enter just single CC16 events, when it actually needs to be used as a true continuous control, like vibrato modulation or volume data. Inserting single values for CCs is a common error.

    I'm sure you'll get it going in no time now, Michael.

    Randy

  9. #9

    Re: JABB Trumpet and Trombone Wah-Wah - Still Struggling

    And that folks is what this forum is all about! Fantastic little thread that sheds so much light on a playing technique brought to life in a sampled instrument. Thanks Randy and thanks Gary Garritan for the samples and structure to do this!
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  10. #10

    Re: JABB Trumpet and Trombone Wah-Wah - Still Struggling

    Nice discussion. Of course its easier if you just grab a trumpet and wag your hand over the bell. (OK, OK - JUST TEASING!)

    I did like the discussion and especially the pics from Randy - makes it easier to understand. I will now have to experiment! Not that I have anything else to do.

    Thanks Guys!

    Bill
    We dream to write and we write to dream.

    Challenge #10 Winner

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