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Topic: Symphony 2 - finished - ALL EWQL SO Platinum +

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  1. #1

    Symphony 2 - finished - ALL EWQL SO Platinum +

    Finally ended composing on this work. I kept on writing notes in spite of my temporary hearing problem (right ear). I promised myself to have this done at birthday (yesterday), but one day late isn't that bad.

    It has four parts, totally up to 44:35 minutes. If one says by himself "I must have that EWQL SO" also, I simply can say "don't purchase this". It gave me lots of headaches. E.g. the viola part, which has a lot of different articulations, is spread over the panning from left to right at will. Let's say that you have a "sus" then it comes from the right (as panned) and the martelť comes from the right, which both aren't good. I had set the panning just a bit to the right (near the center). And this is not the only instruments that spreads its panning randomly. Sloppy programming/recording of the samples. That is the reason why a prefere the hopefully new Garritan strings.

    Back to the symphony.
    Symphony 2, "The Birth of a Nation", which is IsraŽl.
    Part 1: The calling by the Almighty God of Abraham - spanning the complete book of Genesis
    Part 2: The exile and exodus from Egypt - the road to and siege of Jericho
    Part 3: The joy of the victory - Joy of the laws given by Mozes - three mighty kings residing at Jerusalem
    Part 4: The declaration of independence of IsraŽl - followed by joy and attacks from their neighbours

    The story is longer and more extensive than that, but you all know (or can read from the Bible and historical documents) how this nation suffered, struggled to be a real nation (and still does).

    Part 1 MP3 https://www.box.com/s/3p2n7ol0fqphqd90p4dd
    Part 2 MP3 https://www.box.com/s/ik93v4tksi06rwp74brj
    Part 3 MP3 https://www.box.com/s/l0a9c59enxy85x522pl5
    Part 4 Mp3 https://www.box.com/s/0enta5qwkd6hgvkt9fvs - last part and new entry

    Part 1 FLAC Compression https://www.box.com/s/9r424rgbun7b6bypn48b
    Part 2 FLAC Compression https://www.box.com/s/4cyyn5fs4ob8zbft0m1x
    Part 3 FLAC Compression https://www.box.com/s/92r1iw0yoia9e871zc12
    Part 4 FLAC Compression https://www.box.com/s/iw7kjw48u74c5j8ky3h4 - last part and new entry

    Timing
    Part 1: 17:37
    Part 2: 8:42
    Part 3: 8:03
    Part 4: 10:13

    Tools to get it done

    • Notation program: Overture.
    • Playback per instrument: Overture because SONAR failed on me at the first part (fast flute sequences chopped)
    • Imported those audio files from Overture into SONAR (32 bits) for tweaking the balance and for applying Altiverb, with IR Concertgebouw. Some equalizing per instrument track within SONAR.
    • Adobe Audition for Normalizing, Equalizing, Amplification, converting it to MP3 and FLAC.


    Take your time. If your span of concentration exceeds 3 minutes!

    Raymond

  2. #2

    Re: Symphony 2 - finished - ALL EWQL SO Platinum +

    Bravissimo Raymond,


    What an impressive achievement and effort. Even with hearing loss, you succeed in creating a masterpiece of musical highlights, technical perfection and thrilling story telling in your typical idiom. This is a level of music making that exceeds by far the average, it's simply outstanding.

    As I've stated before, this composition deserves a live performance by the best of Dutch orchestras: the Amsterdam Concertgebouw orchestra. You must absolutely present this oeuvre to the artistic management over there. Among all the present day rubbish and experiment for experiment's sake this is a shining flower, a rich story transformed into divine music.

    Sincere congratulations Raymond and deep admiration!

    Max

  3. #3

    Re: Symphony 2 - finished - ALL EWQL SO Platinum +

    Since editing isn't quite possible and easy anymore, here the forgotten comment on the sequence at about 6:18.

    These violins 1 / violins 2 / violas fast ups and downs aren't staccato but meant as glissando, which I cannot make as they should in Overture/EWQL. Sorry about that.


    Raymond

  4. #4

    Re: Symphony 2 - finished - ALL EWQL SO Platinum +

    I've only listened to the first movement. But I love it. I really don't know what else to say. Someone once said that a piece of music should take the listener on a journey. Even this one movement does so.

  5. #5

    Re: Symphony 2 - finished - ALL EWQL SO Platinum +

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMc View Post
    I've only listened to the first movement. But I love it. I really don't know what else to say. Someone once said that a piece of music should take the listener on a journey. Even this one movement does so.
    Thank you, glad you liked it. In the meantime I corrected the glissandi (at about 6:13-6:20 of the 4th part). They are now a bit more real. I won't tell you how I did this, it was hard and a lot of work (mainly manual editing).

    Raymond

  6. #6

    Re: Symphony 2 - finished - ALL EWQL SO Platinum +

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Hamburg View Post
    Bravissimo Raymond,


    What an impressive achievement and effort. Even with hearing loss, you succeed in creating a masterpiece of musical highlights, technical perfection and thrilling story telling in your typical idiom. This is a level of music making that exceeds by far the average, it's simply outstanding.

    .......

    Sincere congratulations Raymond and deep admiration!

    Max
    Thank you Max. In a PM you asked me what I am to IsraŽl. Nothing special. When I answer this seriously, this thread will become a "political" debating area, which isn't the goal of it. Let us say, that another reason is, my wife and I agreed upon a journey to IsraŽl on the occasion of our 50th marriage anniversary in 2017.

    I won't present this Symphony to the Concertgebouw until I sent it to the Tel Aviv Orchestra first. One of the cello melodies is just stolen from that wellknown song : Yerushalayim shel Zahav, composed by Naiomi Shemer just before the war in 1967 (and recorded and became a hit). It was played while the troops entered this Holy City.

    Now I have to ask them for some copyright issues....... you will never know what happens. Starting tomorrow I will amend and write out the score fit for professional musicians (oh, boy!!)

    Raymond

  7. #7

    Re: Symphony 2 - finished - ALL EWQL SO Platinum +

    This has to be the best birthday present you've ever had, Raymond - even though you gave it to yourself!

    It's a monumental undertaking. Even just the thought of someone setting out to compose a full fledged symphony is awe inspiring. That's something on the "bucket list" for many dreamers who will of course never come close to actually doing the deed. - Don't you feel blessed to have software that makes your work possible? I'm sure you do.

    You know by now how I love drama - on stage, on screen, in music. That's certainly an ingredient in no short supply in your complex, sweeping symphony. Wonderful.

    I've listened to part 1 - Is this the same recording posted the past November? I think you're saying that it's part 4 which wasn't finished until now?

    I don't remember the short pieces of text sub-titling the movements - "...the complete book of Genesis" for part 1, for instance. The waterphone is an excellent choice for depicting the primordial, shapeless universe which is suggested by the opening line in Genesis. Immediately following, still in that creation portion, I found it an interesting, attention-getting choice to not reach for the wild chaos and the tremendous powers summoned by the god of Genesis to "create the heavens and earth." Expecting something more along those lines, it was arresting to hear something more restrained. Chaos seems to have been reserved for later in the book when Israel faces so many challenges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    ...One of the cello melodies is just stolen from that well known song : Yerushalayim shel Zahav, composed by Naiomi Shemer...Now I have to ask them for some copyright issues....... you will never know what happens...
    I hope that goes well for you, Raymond. With a direct musical quote like that, securing permission to use it will be essential. It could involve a royalty payment, and if so, hopefully something within reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    ...These violins 1 / violins 2 / violas fast ups and downs aren't staccato but meant as glissando, which I cannot make as they should in Overture/EWQL...
    Ah - Well, you see, you could have avoided that problem by using some GPO, at least in spots like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    ...SONAR failed on me at the first part (fast flute sequences chopped)...
    I'm curious what that means? I think you mean that part of your audio export was truncated in some way? - On the rare occasion when an audio rendering isn't as it should be, when it isn't an exact duplicate of the MIDI, then I know that different audio rendering settings are called for in Sonar - Everything can be rendered as written. In my experience, the sure-fire solution when encountering a rendering problem is to record the audio in real time rather than fast bounce. I haven't had to do that for several years now - But I remember that being the solution when needed. You simply uncheck Fast Bounce and let the export process take as long as the piece actually is.

    The home studio techie in me also wants to point out that your experience with the incorrect flute rendering is a good example of why I think the best way to work in Sonar or any DAW software is to bounce MIDI tracks to audio tracks before doing the final mix. It is more work, and doesn't appeal to everyone. People who bounce to audio, like me, prefer working with the solidity of audio tracks rather than sometimes iffy, changeable playback of MIDI. More detail work with dynamics and balancing can be done. I won't go on - at the very least, it's a way of assuring ourselves that all tracks are precisely the way we want them. We bounce to individual tracks inside the project, then mute, archive, and hide all MIDI tracks, and also turn off the synths used. Our screen only has audio visible in it for the mixing process.

    Most of all, I want to congratulate you, Raymond, on this huge accomplishment. Waves of applause.

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: Symphony 2 - finished - ALL EWQL SO Platinum +

    Thank you, Randy.

    It was quite an undertaking. It certainly has to do with the time of the year. The first symphony I wrote from december until the end of march. This one I started in september to end yesterday (apart from the corrections today). I think wintertime is the best time for me writing symphonies. Hybernating

    About that SONAR thing. I loaded the first part MIDI into SONAR, trying to do as you suggested and as I normally would also do for playing it back, making/bouncing an audio file within SONAR and editing that audiofle for further processing. Remember EWQL uses PLAY as the "audiomachine." When I tried to playback the flutes - just to control if everything was there as I wrote it (the keyswitches, articulations) - SONAR and PLAY made a mess of the faster sequences, leaving out notes, hick ups, skipping notes, etc...... I tried different ASIO settings and buffering, but nothing helped. I thought that very strange, since Overture with its very basic audiomachine - not as sophisticated as SONAR - and just having a simple buffering system did the job excellent.

    So I took another MIDI track doing the same, now the faster sequences for violins 1, and the same occurred. Another day of trying, resetting buffers, altering ASIO, etc. nothing helped. Again skipped notes and other missing things. For not wasting anymore time to this, I went back to Overture and played back track by track (thus making an audiofile per track - the tempi I already had set). I did this for all four parts. Overture has the possibility of entering all kinds of CC's, so the only thing to do in MIDI-less SONAR (only audiofiles were imported) was making the balance right and setting the reverb (Altiverb with Concertgebouw IR). It was the strangest experience ever, SONAR failing on me. In my case I never could bounce to audiofiles in the first place for a proper SONAR treat.

    Can you imagine that I spent 36 (tracks) x 45 minutes behind the machine waiting for all tracks played? EWQL is making another version of PLAY, so I'll hope that the next project can be done as usual: MIDI import into SONAR and working from that point. Maybe the buffering/CPU load/ASIO settings will be more efficient.

    All parts are the same as presented, though with possibly some different equalization (can't remember).

    Thank you for listening and your comments. Now I have to take a break for a while, all notes are spinning around in my head.

    With regards,

    Raymond

  9. #9

    Re: Symphony 2 - finished - ALL EWQL SO Platinum +

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    ...About that SONAR thing. I loaded the first part MIDI into SONAR, trying to do as you suggested and as I normally would also do for playing it back, making/bouncing an audio file within SONAR and editing that audiofle for further processing. Remember EWQL uses PLAY as the "audiomachine." ...
    Ah - "Play." I have a much better understanding of the problem now, Raymond, because when I was still going to the Sonar Forum, I remember seeing it mentioned often that Play doesn't Play well with Sonar - for whatever reason. That's unfortunate!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    ...Can you imagine that I spent 36 (tracks) x 45 minutes behind the machine waiting for all tracks played?...
    oh dear. OK, back in Sonar class for a moment, Raymond.

    --All tracks can be bounced all at once, even when you choose the real time option instead of Fast Bounce.-- You just select all your tracks, MIDI and Audio, then in the Bounce dialogue, you select Tracks as the Source - To record the 36 tracks even in real time would only take the time for playing the piece once, not 36 times--- I'm sorry, I thought you knew that.

    Randy

  10. #10

    Re: Symphony 2 - finished - ALL EWQL SO Platinum +

    No Randy, it was making the audiofile form Overture that took so long, because as I said SONAR failed with PLAY.
    And I know that bouncing can be done with multiple tracks at once.........

    Raymond

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