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Topic: OT: scoring to picture

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  1. #1

    Re: OT: scoring to picture

    Originally posted by robgb:
    If the director is providing footage on VHS, you don\'t have much choice but to get yourself an analog capture card for capturing. You might ask if he can supply you with AVI\'s on disk instead, so you don\'t have to bother capturing any of the footage. If disk space is a concern, tell him to use compressed DivX footage, which maintains much of the quality.

    Sonar 3 will, I believe, let you sync the music to an AVI sequence. Better yet, bounce all your midi tracks to wav files and use Vegas 4, which is about the most solid video editing application available, and also has top notch audio capabilities. I do all my mixing in Vegas.

    A P4 1.7 should work, but is probably not the best machine for the task. I\'d suggest looking into an AMD processor, which easily surpass the speed of pretty much any P4 up to 2.8. One of my machines is an AMD Barton 2500+ and it blazes past my friend\'s P4 2.4. Plus, the AMD chips and boards are considerably less expensive.

    The 2500+ will do just what you need. And using Vegas 4, you can render back to tape to return to the director.

    Sounds to me like you\'ll need a crash course in Video/audio editing. Check out Douglas Spotted Eagle\'s book or, better yet, his DVD series on Vegas 4.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Rob,

    Thanks for the contribution. I would really like to stick with SX (since I am so familiar with it and the film is coming up quick.) I am hoping that this \'Canopus\' and having the Director provide the VHS with timecode burned in visually is the answer. And as suggested, just give accurate SMPTE numbers before each cue. I really want to not get bogged down in new software. Hopefully this will allow me to just concentrate on writing the \'right\' music for each scene.


    Thanks again,

    Rob

  2. #2

    Re: OT: scoring to picture

    Originally posted by JonFairhurst:
    \"P4 1.7 / 1 gig ram / dual vid card / HD - 40 and 80 gig. RME 96/52 card with ADAT, and wordclock (I don\'t have firewire but will likely add that card with the puter upgrade.)\"

    Get the firewire card/capability.

    In the old days you\'d need to get a VHS deck with a 422 port for editing control. And you\'d have to rewind tape, preroll and all that.

    With Firewire you digitize (which will take about 20 minutes each week), and now you\'re working non-linearly.

    Some run a separate PC for video only, sync\'d with MMC/MTC. That way you don\'t bog your audio machine, but you\'ll still want something like Firewire+Canopus to digitize it.

    Check out the last few posts of this thread:
    http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=006112;p=2

    Then again, there\'s the low budget solution. (Not the best for workflow.) I did my video on Vegas, jotted down the hit points, and composed music that would roughly fit in a video-less sequencer. When the music and video were done, I rendered the video, and saved the MIDI. I then brought them both into ACID and fine-tuned the tempo to get the MIDI to fit - all the while playing through a separate Giga machine. I rendered the music and was off to the races. Not very efficient, but it got the job done with the tools at hand, and the sync was perfect.

    Best of luck with the project.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hey Jon,

    Tons of great information. The master/slave solution that Simon does (with success) looks like a good option. But what if I just put my dough into upgrading my DAW to P4 3.0 ghz / 2.0 gig ram, etc. Do you think I would be oK? I get the impression that once these files are digitized (Canopus+firewire), they don\'t take as much of the CPU as one would think. What are your feelings on this. I really don\'t need a \'full screen\' for this first project. I just really want an easy workflow (non-linear, etc.)

    Many thanks, Jon.

    Rob

  3. #3

    Re: OT: scoring to picture

    Rob,
    Just in case you didn\'t pick it up from the old posts, Firewire video with Cubase SX only works on Macs.
    A separate PC with firewire is a good idea but you lose scrub from Cubase (if that\'s important to you?)
    I use a Matrox G450ETV but this means you lose the option of a second monitor.
    All have their advantages and disadvantages but Firewire is probably going to become norm (if Steinberg ever support it [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Antway digitizing it in some way is the only way to go.

    Try to get them to do Burnt in code on your video, I\'d also ask for Dialog etc on one audio CH and Timecode on the other.

    Brian

  4. #4

    Re: OT: scoring to picture

    Originally posted by B:
    Rob,
    Just in case you didn\'t pick it up from the old posts, Firewire video with Cubase SX only works on Macs.
    A separate PC with firewire is a good idea but you lose scrub from Cubase (if that\'s important to you?)
    I use a Matrox G450ETV but this means you lose the option of a second monitor.
    All have their advantages and disadvantages but Firewire is probably going to become norm (if Steinberg ever support it [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Antway digitizing it in some way is the only way to go.

    Try to get them to do Burnt in code on your video, I\'d also ask for Dialog etc on one audio CH and Timecode on the other.

    Brian
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Brian,

    Forgive me for asking what is probably such a basic question, but why do I need the timecode in one channel when it is also burned into the video? Many thanks.

    Rob

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: OT: scoring to picture

    Hold up a minute on the Canopus. Can \'o pus...Can \'o puss...who names these companies? Anyway, there\'s at least one other option that hasn\'t been suggested.

    Rob, do you have a DV camcorder with analog inputs? If so, you can just dub the VHS tapes you get to the DV camcorder, then firewire THAT into your system as a capture. Even with an analog dump, video will always stay sync\'ed to frame accuracy, since that\'s the only way it can behave. The window burn is handy just to have a way to visually spot frames. But you don\'t need the actual timecode burned onto a channel. As long as you\'re framelocked while composing (a natural byproduct of digitizing the video), you don\'t need to be conformed to anything but the picture itself.

    The reason I mention the DVcam idea is that you\'re going to pay for A/D conversion one way or another (unless your producer can burn you AVI, MOV, etc. files). If you have a DVcam with analog inputs, then you already have a set of converters--you just need a firewire card.

    Just another way to approach it...

    I had a Matrox MJPEG system for a while that was good enough, but not great; and knew I wanted to get a nice camera anyway (I bought a Canon GL-1), so the DVcam/firewire combo was more attractive to me than getting a computer-based digitizing system. So that\'s how I ended up with my current rig. I actually ended up getting my wife a lower-tier Canon DVcam. Killed two birds with one stone, there. She got a fun little camera that was easy to shoot, and I get to use it for digitizing so that I don\'t put additional wear and tear on the GL-1\'s transport.

  6. #6

    Re: OT: scoring to picture

    Rob,
    I like TC on an audio track as a failsafe, just in case there are problems.
    Assuming you have something to convert TC to MTC, you can lock Cubase to the tape directly to check sync or whatever.
    It\'s definitely not needed to do the job though,
    Brian

  7. #7

    Re: OT: scoring to picture

    Just to confirm what Bruce said, I\'m also successfully using a DV camcorder with analog in to capture video. This works even better if you can persuade the client to deliver on mini DV instead of VHS!

    Personally, I wouldn\'t bother outputting your video to an external monitor from a sequencer via Firewire. A DV stream spews out 3.6mb of data per second off a hard drive for a start. It might be nice to see the video on a big external screen but scrolling through a smaller, well compressed movie within the sequencer feels more responsive and productive to me. There\'s also a latency issue with outputting to firewire which is a bit of a PITA to deal with, or at least it was last time I looked.

  8. #8

    Re: OT: scoring to picture

    If the director is providing footage on VHS, you don\'t have much choice but to get yourself an analog capture card for capturing.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Actually the ADVC 100 does capture analog too. Just in case you were still considering this box. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    I have it and have captured analog VHS with no problems at all on a PC with a firewire card.

    Actually, it\'s one of the cheapest units on the market for capturing Analog/Digital and outputting Analog/Digital. Most of the cheaper boxes will lack at least one of these options.

  9. #9

    Re: OT: scoring to picture

    I use my TV in in my GF4 gfx card - oh w8 that doesn\'t work anymore for some reason. So I bought a cheap USB2 grabber - which works but isn\'t so great (it drops frames, so I dont know how cool that is for longer sequences like your 15-18 minutes). To show the video I have a PC running Cubase without any soundcard or anything synced via MTC - works fine and doesn\'t stress your DAW

  10. #10

    Re: OT: scoring to picture

    Hi Rob,

    You can likely get by with a fast PC if you don\'t go full screen. It really depends upon the efficiency of your software though. Vegas and ACID do a nice job of handling priorities. Audio wins. Video stays sync\'d. But video may drop frames, if time runs out. Here\'s where you need to shuttle and jog to find exactly what frame you\'re hitting at. Close doesn\'t count. If you drop frames, you need to take time to scrub. If you don\'t drop frames you can just hit the point and move on. Workflow again. But at a small enough window size, frame drop is likely not a problem.

    Regarding Cubase and Firewire, it\'s no big deal if it\'s not supported on Windows. Digitize it with some other software, disconnect the firewire plug and let Cubase roll the AVI file.

    Regarding timecode on an audio channel, that depends on if your software is smart enough to handle it. You can read the burnt-in timecode. Your software *may* be able to read it from the audio channel. But it doesn\'t work the other way around.

    And Bruce makes a great suggestion about a DV camcorder. That\'s what I use, cause that\'s what I got. It takes twice the time - burn to DV tape, then digitize - but you might save enough money to buy GPO :-) Just be aware that many of the older camcorders don\'t support it. I have (at work) an older Sony 3-CCD camcorder that cost $$$ at the time, but it doesn\'t have AV inputs. But I have a two year old Sharp - their cheapest model - that has AV jacks that self configure for in or out.

    Here\'s one plug for a full-screen setup though: If you expect the director/producer to come to your studio to review your work, you will want to show them full screen video. If it\'s small and/or dropping frames, it won\'t give them confidence, and it may even insult them. \"How dare you not respect our beautiful pictures?\". Then again, they\'re sending VHS. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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