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Topic: No Release or Attack Controls In GPO Aria

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  1. #1

    No Release or Attack Controls In GPO Aria

    I was just wondering is there a way to bring the attack and release controls to the instruments in GPO in Aria? In GIO it shows all of the controls right in the engine. For the piano I would like to set a longer release.

    Great library!

    Regards,

    Richard

  2. #2

    Re: No Release or Attack Controls In GPO Aria

    Hi, Richard

    The basic answer is that No, there isn't a way to bring the controls you're talking about from IO and use them in GPO.

    That's the ADSR envelope tool you're talking about. Since the dawn of synths, that's been the the tool for shaping sounds - Attack, Delay, Sustain, Release- ADSR. IO is the only Garritan Library to have that control. It's helpful for layering together special blends, and getting special effects of various sorts. It was a great thing to add to IO which is a very different kind of program from GPO.

    I suppose GPO may have the ADSR at some point, I don't know. But the focus in GPO is realism, and to do the kinds of things that an ADSR can do would distort the instrument sounds into different things - it's not the sort of process people who want to compose music for orchestra are interested in.

    BUT GPO is completely controllable within the realm of realism. The user has to really dig in and Play those instruments, either with a keyboard's full set of controls (Mod Wheel, Pitch Bend, After Touch) or draw controller data in via a Piano Roll View.

    If you want something like the piano to have a longer release, the example you gave, you're not going to find a way to do that outside of using a large reverb plug-in that gives a long tail to the sound. Pianos don't sustain in the real world, and so it's not possible in GPO which is dedicated to realism. But in producing a recording, you can do anything you want, like with a reverb.

    The instruments that respond to CC1 or CC11 volume control, the brass, strings, and woodwinds, can all have more full control to their sound as compared to the percussive instruments like a piano. You can start a note at 0 volume and gently swell it's volume at the beginning and at the end if you want - all with CC1/11 volume.

    You see? You need to approach using GPO as you would a real orchestra, and if you want FX which go beyond what's possible in nature, then you need to start using production tools like reverbs, echos, phlangers etc.

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: No Release or Attack Controls In GPO Aria

    You have a good point Randy. I have to think about realism. I spent all night to the early morning working with GPO and testing it out. I am quite impressed with it. The sonar quality is lovely and it doesn't take a ton of memory to load. That is very important. I was comparing three solo flutes together: EWQLSO - Silver, Philharmonic, and GPO. GPO had the best. Philharmonic was too spread out, EWQLSO just didn't sound right. GPO is nice. It sounds close and no spread out which helps a lot when mixing. I haven't read the manual, but I'm assuming the used for attacks, and the auto-legato is quite handy. Great library definitely worth the purchase.

  4. #4

    Re: No Release or Attack Controls In GPO Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by sururick View Post
    ...I haven't read the manual, but I'm assuming the used for attacks...
    A typo prevents me from knowing what you were saying there, Richard.

    Randy

  5. #5

    Re: No Release or Attack Controls In GPO Aria

    Sorry, Randy, I have a bad problem with trying to type to fast... I was called the worst typer on the job at work lol. What I meant, was velocity in regards to the attack. I also just implemented the piano into the piece and I can see why realism to this instrument is quite important. I went back to listen to a couple of the game symphonies and focused on the piano and the release is far less than what I use for my pianos. My ear is used to that long dreamy delay when I set true pianos or EWQLSO - Silver piano release high.

  6. #6

    Re: No Release or Attack Controls In GPO Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by sururick View Post
    ...My ear is used to that long dreamy delay when I set true pianos or EWQLSO - Silver piano release high.
    Yes, you do need exposure to some more natural sounding instruments, Richard--And now that's what you have with GPO!

    You'll be finding out, as you go along, that you may have been confusing production with instruments themselves. You're talking about very heavily produced sounds, but the raw materials that they start out with before producing the sound, are just simple, raw, instrumental sounds - or synth sounds.

    Here, this is a project that took me less than 5 minutes just now. It's only 20 seconds long - It's the GPO Steinway Piano, and in its audio track I added a reverb on a large, cavernous setting, and I also used a delay unit on a "spacey" setting I tweaked a bit. Heavy reverb and echo - hear the looooong tail, and the dreaminess of the sound? It's all in the production. Easy to do.

    Spacey Piano for Richard


    Randy

  7. #7

    Re: No Release or Attack Controls In GPO Aria

    Thanks Randy... I get what you mean. I have been relying a lot on internal features. This is great. GPO will great to learn with. Dimension, Philharmonic, and EWQSLO have all these release and such features implemented. Kind if goes back to what you said earlier... instruments on steroids. By the way, I loved the dream piano you created, it's my kind of preference! I must say though I am having a lot of fun with GPO. It does indeed blend with GIO quite well based one what I have created so far for my project. Most importantly, it's all blendable in the same aria player! That save soooooo much hassle. I am glad though that controller 11 still works with GPO, that is the main controller I use for dynamics... I just don't like the mod wheel. I generally turn zero controllers etc in sonar and music creator off to bypass this.

    Regards,

    Richard

  8. #8

    Re: No Release or Attack Controls In GPO Aria

    It sounds like you're having a great time with your new copy of GPO - That's great to hear, Richard.

    Quote Originally Posted by sururick View Post
    ...What I meant, was velocity in regards to the attack...
    Thanks for the clarification. Yes, that's right. Velocity controls the attack on instruments. Traditional MIDI programming had volume also controlled by velocity. That causes a built in limitation though, because with GPO and other Garritan Libraries, you're able to come up with more complex control, for instance, soft attacks with a high volume - that would be low velocities with high CC1 or 11.

    Quote Originally Posted by sururick View Post
    ...My ear is used to that long dreamy delay...
    Quoting that again - Glad you like my little 20 second demo of using reverb and echo on a piano. I think you're getting it now - You've been confusing the two elements in sounds/instruments you've been using - There's the original, raw sample, and then there's the FX added to it. You've been using things that have fully produced sounds in their presets. They've taken things like piano samples, brass samples, and added FX so they're ready to use in mixes that need that sort of sound. They're "instant gratification" machines, like Garritan Instant Orchestra is - and there's nothing wrong with that really. Tools that can cut down on someone's production schedule is fine - One of the problems with those kinds of presets, though, is that the user is locked in to what's already been done with the sound. The sounds aren't as customizable as a lot of users want. To take your own basic, raw instrument samples and produced them more specifically for a certain piece of music is the kind of control that's fun to have, and a lot of people insist on.

    And, of course, these highly produced, unnatural kinds of sounds are primarily for just some genres of music - New Age, gaming, some pop.

    So the "long dreamy delay" you're used to on pianos doesn't have to do with the piano samples used, but how the sound was produced for those presets.

    Quote Originally Posted by sururick View Post
    ...I am glad though that controller 11 still works with GPO, that is the main controller I use for dynamics... I just don't like the mod wheel. I generally turn zero controllers etc in sonar and music creator off to bypass this...
    CC1, 11 or 2 (wind controller) is universally used as the instrument volume control in Garritan Libraries. CC7 is the volume control used to control the mixer sliders in ARIA - you set your relative balance between instruments, then usually leave those levels throughout a project. If you do need to change the slider settings during the course of a piece, you can automate those ARIA fader controls with CC7. But CC1/11/2 provides timbre variety as well as volume control. That's what you want to use for playing the instruments.

    And it sounds like you may have a spring action mod wheel/stick like I do? Those modern kind of mod controls aren't practical for Garritan, because when you let go of the control, the spring pulls it back to zero. Some people take their keyboards apart to remove the spring -umm, I don't care for that idea. I just replace mod wheel control with Expression Pedal control, which sends out CC11 - and that's what you're doing. Some people don't care for that, since it can be harder to control your foot movement than hand movement - Works for me though.

    IMPORTANT - You don't want to just "generally" turn "zero controllers" off in Sonar for a Garritan project, you must Always have that off. But keep the other option turned on, the one that searches back for controller levels.

    Keep having fun with GPO!

    Randy

  9. #9

    Re: No Release or Attack Controls In GPO Aria

    Thanks again for the explanations randy. I think I got this all figured out now. I have already got the full 16 channels in aria player assigned... and it's only the first five minutes into the first movement, I am very grateful that GPO and GIO do not suck up a lot of memory . Half of it is GIO and the other half is GPO. I have assigned the full sections of the strings from GPO for specific parts, they are quite impressive and lush. Also, do the strings section kind of have a natural partamento? When moving the mouse along the keyboard in aria with the violins from GPO it sometimes sounds that way. Very nice and classical sounding! I can definitely see the benefits of these natural sounds.

    Regards,

    Richard

  10. #10

    Re: No Release or Attack Controls In GPO Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by sururick View Post
    ...do the strings section kind of have a natural partamento? When moving the mouse along the keyboard in aria with the violins from GPO it sometimes sounds that way...
    It's great to see you enjoying GPO so much, Richard. I wish more new users would be as active on the Forum as you are, reporting their experiences. There's a reason GPO's been a best selling orchestral program for so many years now - Excellent sounding, affordable Library it is indeed.

    There isn't any natural Portamento that I'm aware of in those string patches, but notice in the Controls window of ARIA that there's a Port control available via CC20. WARNING - a teeny bit of that goes a long way - It usually ends up sounding too synthy in a recording, so frankly, I use it very rarely. It's there to experiment with though.

    Randy

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